PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions-91/)
-   -   Is a C210 a dangerous plane? (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/657131-c210-dangerous-plane.html)

Bend alot 25th Jan 2024 21:21


Originally Posted by nomorecatering (Post 11583046)
Are there many 210's still doing outback flying? How many?

Yes - Lots of them.
Not really a replacement.

CAsA have 267 of the 210 L,M&N variants on the register - my guess is about 2/3 are in the outback flying gig, or more.

Kunnas 26th Jan 2024 23:32


Originally Posted by Bend alot (Post 11583571)
Yes - Lots of them.
Not really a replacement.

CAsA have 267 of the 210 L,M&N variants on the register - my guess is about 2/3 are in the outback flying gig, or more.

Plenty in Darwin, Kununurra and Broome. What would be a viable alternative to the 210 I wonder?

Pinky the pilot 27th Jan 2024 09:13

Just thought that I'd have a look at the summary from Log book #1 and found that I last flew a C210 on 27/8/84.

IIRC it was VH-TEV which had gear doors, and I was told by the Instructor who checked me out on it (Chris B) that it was then reputedly the fastest C210 in Australia!:ooh:

From memory we were at 3,500' in smooth air and I was told to set 25"/2500rpm in level flight.

I think we achieved 175KIAS. A bit too long ago to say definitely.

The Wawa Zone 27th Jan 2024 09:54

Short answer: No.
If you are looking for a job then first get a dozen hours PIC on both, and get your short field t/off and landing techniques down pat.
The in flight breakups of late seem to have been in convective weather, which can create two outcomes; the wings come off in controlled wings-level flight due to turbulence or control has been lost and the thing is over stressed while trying to recover. Either way, the first problem was getting into a really small bit of cloud that wasn't actually a really small bit of cloud.

C172's are less likely to be found flying around in cloud in remote tropical areas up north, that's why.

"If you can fly a C206, you can fly a C210 ?" You can fly a C210 as well and lots more, but I think you are asking about differences.
I'll try to find a C210 cheat sheet I made up in a different century, but basically:
1. don't overestimate what you can do in a 206 or underestimate what you can do in a 210.
2. the 210 wants to float if a couple of knots too fast on final, and will float along in ground effect until it drops like a wet beach towel, assumes a banana shape, and needs to be dragged off behind a tractor while leaving deep ruts in the ground. Fly finals using correct airspeed for weight and correct aimpoint and this won't happen.
3. figure out why there is a 4kt difference in stall speed between front and rear CG limits and use it.
4. the best concept I've ever heard about the C210 was years ago on PPRune - 'the C210 is like a big fast 1000cc road bike, it's not a trail bike. Treat it like a trail bike and it will kill you'. You need to fly it. The 206 will kill you for the same reason, just not quite so soon.
5. keep the gear mechanisms clean and with a lubed greasy feel.
6. read again what Compressor Stall wrote above, the thing wears many layers of clothing.



Capt Fathom 27th Jan 2024 10:51

I’m pinching myself now, knowing I survived flying the C205 C206 & C210 all those years ago. What was I thinking?

zegnaangelo 27th Jan 2024 13:20


Originally Posted by The Wawa Zone (Post 11584510)
Short answer: No.
If you are looking for a job then first get a dozen hours PIC on both, and get your short field t/off and landing techniques down pat.
The in flight breakups of late seem to have been in convective weather, which can create two outcomes; the wings come off in controlled wings-level flight due to turbulence or control has been lost and the thing is over stressed while trying to recover. Either way, the first problem was getting into a really small bit of cloud that wasn't actually a really small bit of cloud.

C172's are less likely to be found flying around in cloud in remote tropical areas up north, that's why.

"If you can fly a C206, you can fly a C210 ?" You can fly a C210 as well and lots more, but I think you are asking about differences.
I'll try to find a C210 cheat sheet I made up in a different century, but basically:
1. don't overestimate what you can do in a 206 or underestimate what you can do in a 210.
2. the 210 wants to float if a couple of knots too fast on final, and will float along in ground effect until it drops like a wet beach towel, assumes a banana shape, and needs to be dragged off behind a tractor while leaving deep ruts in the ground. Fly finals using correct airspeed for weight and correct aimpoint and this won't happen.
3. figure out why there is a 4kt difference in stall speed between front and rear CG limits and use it.
4. the best concept I've ever heard about the C210 was years ago on PPRune - 'the C210 is like a big fast 1000cc road bike, it's not a trail bike. Treat it like a trail bike and it will kill you'. You need to fly it. The 206 will kill you for the same reason, just not quite so soon.
5. keep the gear mechanisms clean and with a lubed greasy feel.
6. read again what Compressor Stall wrote above, the thing wears many layers of clothing.


thanks for this!

someone told me that this thing stalls easily on short final? and that it will go into a unrecoverable spin? is that true or just internet heresay?

in any case i think i will take a few lessons in a C210 just for fun - i doubt anyone will let me solo it with my low hours at the moment - I'm just a PPL(A) and not looking for work. but i seem to have this addiction in wanting to find new planes to fly and heard so much about the C200 series of planes. also interestingly, i have a chance to take the IR course in a C206 and may just do that...

Global Aviator 27th Jan 2024 20:59

Think back to when you learnt to fly before the high and mighty pfft it’s just an aeroplane (yes I know it is).

There are a few things I remember from waaaayyyyy back. The first was when a C401 rocked up at the flying school and we all thought it was a space shuttle. A while later jumped in a C210 and the same wow what a machine.

No they are not unsafe but that’s only if you treat em right, pretty much like any aircraft. I fly a small private jet at the moment that demands the same kinda respect, I may have a ****e ton of hours but still, respect the jet!

Now talk about a fast 210, ya ever fly one with the IO550 installed!

As for replacements, as has been stated there are not really any.

The 210 be it on tourist ops, black fella runs or full of cargo, what a beast…

Newbies follow the advice of Stall and Wawa and then talk to your peers who still fly the beast.

krismiler 28th Jan 2024 00:57

I last flew a C210 in 1988 and a C206 in 1999. The C206 has struts which hold the wings to the fuselage and fixed landing gear, it’s therefore a more solid aircraft.

Even if you’re instrument rated and the aircraft is certified for IFR, be very careful about what you actually fly into. Even with weather radar you can still get caught out. A solid bank of cumulus can give you a good shake up and a towering cumulus is a CB without water. I’ve had to descend urgently due to heavy icing in an aircraft which was certified for icing conditions and had lightning strikes in cloud well away from CBs.

My present aircraft is jet powered, pressurised, radar equipped and certified for known or forecast icing conditions. I’m still very careful about what I go into.

C441 28th Jan 2024 01:52

The 210 was the workhorse for the mob I flew for in the Territory in the 80s. We had at least a dozen of them across a number of bases doing mail runs and general charter, skipping along at a good pace meaning they could earn lots of dollars more quickly than the 206, with almost the same payload capacity.

They handled the dirt strips, even some of the rougher ones, with a firmer ride but just as adequately as the 'Duck' - the 206 with a pod.

Ours were well maintained and provided you treated them as if they were your own, they were a safe, reliable and comfortable aircraft.


Global Aviator 28th Jan 2024 02:19

[QUOTE=C441;11584926]The 210 was the workhorse for the mob I flew for in the Territory in the 80s. We had at least a dozen of them across a number of bases doing mail runs and general charter, skipping along at a good pace meaning they could earn lots of dollars more quickly than the 206, with almost the same payload capacity.

No doubt many of those exact ones still doing the same thing 40 years later!

compressor stall 28th Jan 2024 03:03

All that said, the most dangerous 210 is in the hands of an early 20's CPL holder with 500 hours in a remote NT base with minimal supervision a few seconds after saying "watch this!".

Two that spring to mind.
https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications.../aair200201100
https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications.../aair200100591

krismiler 28th Jan 2024 03:08


No doubt many of those exact ones still doing the same thing 40 years later!
I’m amazed at the number of aircraft which I learn on, or flew at the start of my career, that are still flying. And they were far from new back then.
​​​​​​​

Capt Fathom 28th Jan 2024 04:21


Originally Posted by krismiler (Post 11584910)
The C206 has struts which hold the wings to the fuselage and fixed landing gear, it’s therefore a more solid aircraft.

So are you saying aircraft without struts are not as strong? That’s a lot of aircraft.

drpixie 28th Jan 2024 06:31


Originally Posted by Capt Fathom (Post 11584954)
So are you saying aircraft without struts are not as strong? That’s a lot of aircraft.

Well there. That's what wrong with that 737-Max. No struts! Nothing holding those wings on. It's no wonder the doors fall off. :hmm::*

zegnaangelo 28th Jan 2024 10:48

if i learn and do a course say 20hours on the c206, is it a trivial thing to transition to a c210 in future? or should i just learn on a c210 from day one? cost is obviousoy more for the latter...

krismiler 28th Jan 2024 11:44


Originally Posted by drpixie (Post 11584979)
Well there. That's what wrong with that 737-Max. No struts! Nothing holding those wings on. It's no wonder the doors fall off. :hmm::*

The only low wing aircraft I’ve seen with struts are crop sprayers. They have a very hard life involving extreme manoeuvring, operating from farm strips and rapid weight changes as payload is dispensed.


krismiler 28th Jan 2024 12:25


Originally Posted by zegnaangelo (Post 11585124)
if i learn and do a course say 20hours on the c206, is it a trivial thing to transition to a c210 in future? or should i just learn on a c210 from day one? cost is obviousoy more for the latter...

Look at the types in the fleets of the operators you’re targeting but I would be inclined to do the C206 first, it will give you a good grounding and it’s an aircraft used for dropping skydivers which is a typical first job.


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:43.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.