Did he get a G3 FIR though? I think he did. I think this guy wanted a G1 FIR.
At least with G3 you still are under the supervision of the G1... |
Just need to ask the question why GA Ready Courses are required!
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When I joined the military, I was a (relatively) experienced civvie pilot with approximately 5,000 hrs behind me. Grade 1 Instructor, ME IFR & a whole range of other tricks…
The military made me no concessions because of that & made me start “from the bottom” - in order to teach me not just the skills & knowledge, but also the attitudes required to be a military aviator. They were correct to do so. Several years later, I left the military & re-engaged in civvie aviation & although CASA gave me a licence to fly a category of aircraft that I hadn’t had previously in civilian life - they didn’t gift me the qualifications to teach it - even though I held the highest category of military flying instructor rating on that category of aircraft. They were correct to do so. It’s all aviation, but there are fundamentally different skill sets between flying military, airlines, heavy jets, fighters & piston singles… These different skills, knowledge & attitudes need to be learnt in context! To think that there is nothing to learn from each different discipline / type of aviation is somewhat professionally arrogant - which carries significant risk. CASA on this occasion has it correct. |
Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
(Post 11489795)
And so, having thrown the keys to a C172 to Mr Clarke, walk us through the carnage that would have ensued.
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Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc
(Post 11490290)
Im sorry, but yo( and others) are missing the point here.
Your Boeing/Airbus TRI, TRE analogy is invalid, Those TRI's and TRE's have never had an Instructional course in the same ball par/league as a RAAF QFI/FCI. Aircraft TRI/TREs do a PMI style course as part of their training, they also receive a letter from the regulator granting them the qualification/delegation, that is limited to while employed with that airline. The regulator does the initial test for a TRE. They undergo bi-annual assessments as trainers. They undergo annual trainer refresher. They are also trained on ICAO competency based assessment. Despite all that, to teach abinitio, they would have to go and do an initial G3. |
Because, Head..er..wind, sadly, a mathematics professor is likely to be more qualified to teach mathematics to school students, in Australia, than the people actually teaching.
And everyone realises that CASA has authorised Clarke to fly a C172, don't they... |
Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
(Post 11490577)
Because, Head..er..wind, sadly, a mathematics professor is likely to be more qualified to teach mathematics to school students, in Australia, than the people actually teaching.
And everyone realises that CASA has authorised Clarke to fly a C172, don't they... 1. many mathematics professors are good at the actual concepts and base theorems, they are actually pretty bad at arithmethic 2. many of them are ****e teachers / lecturers. great reasearchers, but teaching. neh. and many don't like that aspect of their work3 3. also, teaching primary/secondary students requires a BEd or GradDipEd. don't think any joe can just walk off the street and get a job as a teacher. whereas, teaching university students, well, you could be a final year or honours student teaching first year tutorials. i'm not sure you will have john nash teaching primary school math.... |
They went back to having the students go through the 1FTS CT4 course as it was proving a bit too much for them as we couldn't dumb down the pc9s as they can do on the pc21. |
Originally Posted by deja vu
(Post 11490357)
Well Mr Clarke has demonstrated a degree of arrogance that would suggest he could well unleash unsafe aviators. Of course arrogance and an inflated sense of ego is always seen as an asset in military aviation
Originally Posted by Clare Prop
(Post 11489895)
If we go by his logic my 35 years of civvie instructing should qualify me to jump into a PC21 with no conversion training and start training fighter pilots. Yeah right.
When I came here with a UK instructor rating I had to do a conversion too. Surely this god-like creature can manage to do a PMI exam, flight test and get an endorsement on "single engine aeroplanes below 5700 kg"? Sounds like he would be a nightmare to work with, the way he looks down on us all, not someone you would want on your team, someone who thinks they can go to the AAT for special treatment instead of just complying with Part 61, the Part he would be teaching! A few years ago I did a CPL conversion for a guy who had been instructing on Tornadoes in the RAF. He then had to do more conversion training before he went on to instruct at Pearce. He would have been a great civvie instructor as well, because he recognised that they are two very different skill sets and never saw one as inferior to the other, having flown GA before joining the RAF. I strongly disagree that an ex military pilot would show a bad attitude, at least on 95% of the occasions. ''Sounds like he would be a nightmare to work with, the way he looks down on us all, not someone you would want on your team'' A person, as you describe just wouldn't survive the Air Force Academy and the later career. Teamwork is the cornerstone of the military, especially if we talk for air operations. Can't be an Air Force pilot without good flying skills, SA, etc. The system is built like that A civilian FI could be a skilled teacher and excellent pilot, could also be a limited pilot who got the license cause he just paid for it Some good relationships with the flight school, an overpriced FI rating and gets the job maybe without a proper salary Just to log some hours, present himself as a pilot instructor and make some videos on instagram God helps the students Of course, some checks before getting his rating are ok but is ridiculous to ask a military pilot to have the same course for FI rating with a 200 hours piston pilot and paying the same money for that |
I am going by his arguments to the AAT in this particular case, not making generalisations about ex military pilots. He thought he should be fast tracked straight to a Grade 1, so there is no comparison to your analogy of the Instagram/200 hour pilot you describe, who probably wouldn't last long enough to get the hours for a Grade 1 either.
I have no idea about Australian CAA and their formalities Clearly, as you don't even know the name of the regulatory body. GA doesn't owe this man anything, in fact we've been paying his salary all these years with our taxes. I wonder why he is not staying in the RAAF where his skills would be appreciated if he is so keen to continue instructing? |
DRE,
Airline TRIs and TREs, are mainly about checking not training. Clare prop, your input re being tax funded etc etc is totally irrelevant, and ludicrous. That has no bearing on whether or not he would be capable and competent as a civil instructor. All of the competencies in the MOS would be equivalently covered in the RAAF instructor pubs. A question - is there a civilian course for formation training flying? If I taught formation flying in the military do I need to do a civilian course? |
Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc
(Post 11490863)
DRE,
Airline TRIs and TREs, are mainly about checking not training. Clare prop, your input re being tax funded etc etc is totally irrelevant, and ludicrous. That has no bearing on whether or not he would be capable and competent as a civil instructor. All of the competencies in the MOS would be equivalently covered in the RAAF instructor pubs. |
It’s not that the military pilots don’t know how to fly, but general aviation is a completely different world.
I did some training with ex military for them to get a civil license. They have a lot of experience on fast and heavy jets, but many had problems with a c150 because the lag of power. All of them would have killed themselves in a taildragger or when spinning a citabria. even the most qualified of them , a former German Starfighter jockey with 500 hours on typ. Phantom Instructor and at the end of his career flying as a tornado instructor at cottesmoore, had problems with the very light aircraft. He adapted very fast, but the additional training was well spent and absolutely needed. Another thing is the civil trainees. Many of them aren’t the best of the best, because they haven’t passed any selection process and don’t have the right attitude either. |
I don't think the former Squadron Leader Clarke is asking for more than he deserves.
After investing lots of public $$$ into the training, education, it is a fact that many ratings/endorsements do not translate into the civilian system, Yet, we all share the same skies. Unfortunately the only way to change the Law for the benefits of others is to go through the legal system, which I believe is what the Officer is trying to achieve. Maybe including PMI, IREX, AirLaw, HuF lessons at the Academy, which I am surprised they are not already covered? |
Originally Posted by DynamicStall
(Post 11490379)
135.045
Searched for the requirement when I first heard about it and couldn’t find it. Makes sense now, not that I agree with the new requirement. |
DRE
It’s in the name, Type Rating Instructor. All those training courses I and every other airline pilot have completed in our careers weren’t about training were they? The only measure of competency as a civil instructor would be for him to compete a CASA mandated course to demonstrate those competencies, which he is refusing to do What about a formation endorsement? Should he be granted the right to teach formation flying? Or should he have to do a "CASA mandated course to demonstrate those competencies" as you claim. Or what about aerobatics? same thing. So you’d have no problem letting pure civilian instructors directly train in the RAAF then would you? I mean the guy’s lawyer said it’s best trainee pilots get as diverse a range of teachers as possible, maybe the RAAF need some civilian C&T pilots to show them how to really fly…… Inbalance All of them would have killed themselves in a taildragger or when spinning a citabria. even the most qualified of them , a former German Starfighter jockey with 500 hours on typ. Phantom Instructor and at the end of his career flying as a tornado instructor at cottesmoore, had problems with the very light aircraft. He adapted very fast, but the additional training was well spent and absolutely needed. All of them would have killed themselves in a taildragger or when spinning a citabria. |
A question - is there a civilian course for formation training flying? If I taught formation flying in the military do I need to do a civilian course? BUT!! Under CA$A rules, I didn't have the official sign-off for a civilian rating, because the RAAF simply marked the log book as "qualified" on type, as it covered GF, an Instrument Rating, low flying, hoist, cargo hook, and formation. So, I had to be "checked out" by a "qualified" formation pilot. This instructor (with 2000 hrs) had done 3 hours of formation training and had been signed off as qualified. He was then checking me (with 13,000 hrs). I showed him what formation was really about, and he was gripping the edge of his seat. His hand was still shaking as he signed me off. CA$A horsefeather regulations, totally unnecessary. |
Thanks Ascend Charlie. Perhaps we should start a court action against CASA for automatic Form and Aeros endorsements on our civie licences.
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
(Post 11489639)
Let them do the test, if they have what it takes they pass, done, move on and teach. Having a wide base of experience in GA is exactly what GA needs. CASA seems to prefer a method where toddlers are teaching babies to play concert piano... Surely this guy is more proficient at instructing than a 250 hour TT Pilot. |
Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc
(Post 11490964)
UMMMM how many TRIs sat in the seat and did a DDM (Demo, Direct, Monitor) of a sequence? NONE. Sitting at the sim console, critiquing when someone doesn't do something correctly is not instructing. And I don't know what outfits you worked at, but at my previous airline, many a person was failed on a training day. Just saying. Where as Mil instructors would have demoed every single sequence in the Aircraft.
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