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-   The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions-91/)
-   -   Are we going soft? (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/651953-we-going-soft.html)

Pinky the pilot 28th Mar 2023 09:33

At the risk of being called names such as 'Grandpa', 'Old Bugger,' 'Has been', (insert the epithet of your choice):

Whilst I consider automation to generally be of an assistance/improvement into helping Pilots fly more effeciently, I stll maintain that any Pilot could and should on occasion where circumstances permit, fly a leg of a flight solely on reference to a VOR, DME and/or an NDB, (whilst they still exist)

And in the case of a GA IFR flight, fly the leg without the use of the Autopilot!

I will freely admit to it have been quite a few years since I flew SP IFR, but I would always make a point of doing the above on at least one leg of a flight.

I called this procedure, Keeping up to the standards I was originally trained to.

And thank you for that, the Late and dearly missed Tony Kingham.:sad:

tossbag 28th Mar 2023 09:59


And in the case of a GA IFR flight, fly the leg without the use of the Autopilot!
Hand fly it from take off to top of climb, then hand fly it from top of descent to landing, that seems to work good.

Pinky the pilot 28th Mar 2023 10:05


Hand fly it from take off to top of climb, then hand fly it from top of descent to landing, that seems to work good.
Err...negative, Tossbag; The whole flight! From take-off, right through to landing!:=

Seabreeze 28th Mar 2023 10:58

Handflying
 

Originally Posted by Pinky the pilot (Post 11410228)
Err...negative, Tossbag; The whole flight! From take-off, right through to landing!:=

In my early days of charter flying (early to mid seventies) often the autopilot didn't work, so hand flying the entire trip wasn't a choice.
SB

compressor stall 28th Mar 2023 11:13


Originally Posted by Ixixly (Post 11410177)
Compressorstall Global Aviator Myanmar and Turkey are both CONFLICT Zones.

Looking at the heat map… is there a conflict going on between Hawaii and the west coast USA? There’s a lot of reported interference there.

Noeyedear 28th Mar 2023 12:46

Well, if we want to look at the axiom "train the way you fly, fly the way you train", what do you think of this item doing the rounds on LinkedIn at the moment?


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7eec6a523b.png

If you're an Airline Cadet, the latest glass cockpit trainers are ideal, but If you're going to be starting out in a typical Aussie GA relic, are you truly 'job ready'?

As for GPS reliability, its great until its not. Hasn't been available close to Syria for a few years now.

Checkboard 28th Mar 2023 22:54

Meh. A lazy pilot is a lazy pilot. It doesn't matter if they're sitting in front of round guages or the latest glass.

Ixixly 29th Mar 2023 02:25


Originally Posted by compressor stall (Post 11410253)
Looking at the heat map… is there a conflict going on between Hawaii and the west coast USA? There’s a lot of reported interference there.

Which heat map are you talking about? I've asked for links previously for this sort of thing but still nothing! If you're going to reference something then you really need to post a link otherwise you're basically talking to yourself as you can't expect anyone to give an answer.

Ixixly 29th Mar 2023 02:36


Originally Posted by Checkboard (Post 11410551)
Meh. A lazy pilot is a lazy pilot. It doesn't matter if they're sitting in front of round guages or the latest glass.

THANK YOU! Now if we can just get away from this whole stupid idea of "Technology makes you lazy" and focus on "Poor Training leads to Poor Skills" then we can start to actually make improvements on safety.

megan 29th Mar 2023 04:24


"Technology makes you lazy" and focus on "Poor Training leads to Poor Skills"
Something I've wondered about, used to stick my neck out and pull the oil pressure cb on one engine (round gauges) and during the 20-25 flight home it was never picked up. Reliance on the master caution and red oil pressure segment on the central warning panel? Not for me to comment, I was just a line jock, sticking my head out as I said.

Ixixly 29th Mar 2023 06:30


Originally Posted by megan (Post 11410659)
Something I've wondered about, used to stick my neck out and pull the oil pressure cb on one engine (round gauges) and during the 20-25 flight home it was never picked up. Reliance on the master caution and red oil pressure segment on the central warning panel? Not for me to comment, I was just a line jock, sticking my head out as I said.

So what you're saying is you did this, people never noticed and instead of talking to the training department and bringing this up as an issue or submitting some kind of anonymous report you decided to not say anything? And this increased safety how exactly? How was this NOT for you to comment? You noticed a clear deficiency in standards and decided just to keep it to yourself? And you have the audacity to mention a story about a Pilot in a C150 that didn't know something about their Aircraft when you're clearly doing a great job of contributing to safety standards.

tossbag 29th Mar 2023 07:09


Err...negative, Tossbag; The whole flight! From take-off, right through to landing!https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies2/eusa_naughty.gif
​​​​​​​Pinky, **** that.

tossbag 29th Mar 2023 07:11

Ixixly, are you perhaps holding on to it a little tight?

tossbag 29th Mar 2023 07:13


In my early days of charter flying (early to mid seventies) often the autopilot didn't work, so hand flying the entire trip wasn't a choice.
Same in the 00's and 10's but I think they're talking about now.

Ixixly 29th Mar 2023 07:46


Originally Posted by tossbag (Post 11410717)
Ixixly, are you perhaps holding on to it a little tight?

Nice to see people really living up to their names on here :)

Pinky the pilot 29th Mar 2023 09:16


Err...negative, Tossbag; The whole flight! From take-off, right through to landing!https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies2/eusa_naughty.gif
​​​​​​​Pinky, **** that.
If indeed that is really your attitude Tossbag, then I am extremely happy that I can be sure that I will never fly in an Aircraft piloted by you.

megan 30th Mar 2023 03:03

Ixixly, we had instructions from the training dept that line capts were not permitted to offer anything that could be construed as instruction to FO's, reason being line capts don't have sufficient knowledge. The operation was unique in that it didn't comply with regs or its own ops manual. FO were supplied by a contractor, ink still wet a lot of them (we all have to start some where), only stayed for 18 months on average as there was no career progression, not permitted to crew night flights for example, that had to be done by two capts. There is a big world out there besides the strict airline world.

My interest in pulling the CB was piqued by an incident before we became two crew, had taken off and just settled in the cruise when I saw the the oil pressure on one engine had dropped into the yellow and fluctuating plus/minus 5PSI and temp had dropped 15°C, pulled engine to idle and pressure dropped to a fraction above minimum permissible. Upon shutting down the ramp hand came to the cockpit and said you've got a great puddle of oil on the ground. Investigation found no oil in the tank and a split in the line from tank to pump. As long as the engine was kept running it was going to be available in the event the "good" engine coughed, had it been shut down and a restart attempted there would have been no oil. Never shut down an engine capable of producing power one Ansett chap said.

you're clearly doing a great job of contributing to safety standards
I can't prove it, but I have good reason to think that a submission I made to CASA resulted in the REPCON program. What have you done?

Ixixly 30th Mar 2023 10:01


Originally Posted by megan (Post 11411377)
Ixixly, we had instructions from the training dept that line capts were not permitted to offer anything that could be construed as instruction to FO's, reason being line capts don't have sufficient knowledge. The operation was unique in that it didn't comply with regs or its own ops manual. FO were supplied by a contractor, ink still wet a lot of them (we all have to start some where), only stayed for 18 months on average as there was no career progression, not permitted to crew night flights for example, that had to be done by two capts. There is a big world out there besides the strict airline world.

My interest in pulling the CB was piqued by an incident before we became two crew, had taken off and just settled in the cruise when I saw the the oil pressure on one engine had dropped into the yellow and fluctuating plus/minus 5PSI and temp had dropped 15°C, pulled engine to idle and pressure dropped to a fraction above minimum permissible. Upon shutting down the ramp hand came to the cockpit and said you've got a great puddle of oil on the ground. Investigation found no oil in the tank and a split in the line from tank to pump. As long as the engine was kept running it was going to be available in the event the "good" engine coughed, had it been shut down and a restart attempted there would have been no oil. Never shut down an engine capable of producing power one Ansett chap said.I can't prove it, but I have good reason to think that a submission I made to CASA resulted in the REPCON program. What have you done?

I'll tell you what I didn't do, that's put up with clearly safety deficient operations such as the one you're describing. You were instructed not to present anything to the FOs, you could have gone to the training department themselves and pointed out your findings, but decided not to and instead keep it for a fun anecdote later on for people discussing why they think the current generation of Pilots have gone soft due to Automation rather than poor training standards. Ironic.

tossbag 30th Mar 2023 10:04


Nice to see people really living up to their names on here https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif
;) why do you think I chose that name?


​​​​​​​If indeed that is really your attitude Tossbag, then I am extremely happy that I can be sure that I will never fly in an Aircraft piloted by you.
Pinkbits, thank the lordy I wasn't on any of your flights ;) you know what I'm sayin'?? ;)​​​​​​​

dr dre 31st Mar 2023 00:37

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b73676b38.jpeg


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