Tailwheel & Aerobatic training
 

Hi everyone, first time posting so please excuse my ignorance if this thread has already been answered recently.

I was hoping to update the thread on everyone's thoughts on the best flight school for tailwheel and/or aerobatic training on the east coast of Australia. I'm based in Sydney and hoping to test the hands and feet skills. But since every flight school claims to be the best flight school, it makes it hard to decide. Just curious on everyone's experiences in their tailwheel and/or aerobatic training and where they recommend or steer clear of?

Thanks in advance,

Fly safe!

I suggest Phil Unicombe up in Cessnock, or Pete Townsend at Aerobatics Australia at Bankstown.

If in Melbourne djpil would be my go to for tailwheel, aerobatics and upset recovery training.

In Melbourne, another vote for Dave Pilkington or Nick at Peninsula Aero Club, pretty spoiled for choice to be honest!

Curtis aviation in Camden?
I got recurrent on TW there and was happy with the experience.
They had (access to) an S2 Pitts at the time as well.

Tis in Far North Queensland, but Bob Harris at thew Bob Harris Flying School is a truly great recommendation. He has a Belanca Decathlon.

I'f you don't mind travelling, I'd suggest Adelaide Biplanes at Aldinga Airfield.

Do you have an RPC? I got mine from Eddie Madden in his RAAus registered Eurofox in Tocumwal. Excellent value, I was done in two days and being RA the rates are much lower than any GA taildragger. Bit of a trek from Sydney but it'd be a manageable cross country flight if you're building hours anyway. Can't speak highly enough of Eddie, the man has decades of experience.

how hard is it to transition from a Eurofox to a say Decathlon or Citabria? The Eurofox RPC option could make more sense financially but I dont know if I will need a lot more work to transition to Decathlon/Citabria, which will negate more of the cost savings

If you're going to transition, the Decathlon or the Citabria are the aircraft to transition to. They are both excellent, forgiving for the newby and great aircraft to fly.

Just don't imagine for 2 secs that, having obtained your TW endorsement in either of these, you could jump straight into a Pitts or an Extra (or even a Tiger Moth for that matter).. They merely herald the start of learning to fly all over again.

Why not?

The ratio of main wheel width to mainwheel/tailwheel length in a Decathelon make it pretty forgiving. The short tailwheel distance in a Pitts makes it quite a bit more unstable (twitchy).

You can go from one to the other, but a few circuits with an instructor would be pretty advisable (when isn't it? )

Curtis Aviation - not had much luck with them, uptight mob, not really flexible. In my mind, the Citabria is an uninspiring machine to do a TW endorsement in. You will definitely earn yourself a proper sign off in one though - you can't see over the cowling on the ground and the rudder control in the air to stay coordinated is a bit of a challenge.

Wings out West (Dubbo) - Easy going very nice bloke runs this school. He will take care of your training, unlike factories in the cities. Does ab-initio in Cubs! The machines are fun to fly and the home strip is fun. Machines regoed RAAUS so need to do a GA conversion after he signs you off though. The cubs have heel brakes and require S-turns to see over the cowling, other than that, very simple machines to fly that won't get you into much trouble. I fit into it like a glove and found it the most fun TW type I've flown so far.

Advanced Aviation Training (Redcliffe) - RV6 rents out dual relatively cheap and is fun to fly. Bit squirrely on the ground and a responsive machine in the air. Will definitely give you a well earned TW rating. The mob there are congenial, agreeable people.

One thing that might make the jump from a Citabria to a Pitts hard is the open cockpit (if you're in a model with one). Also the massive amounts of left turning tendencies when taking off. Also the slip needed when landing to see the runway.

My aim is to fly the Pitts. I was toying of the idea of doing my entire TW in the Pitts. But then, someone said it was better to get some basics in a more docile machine before doing Pitts training.
That said, I'm not even sure that I will want to be in aerobatics seriously at the moment - its hard work to win a category and I don't have time or money to put much effort into training at the moment sadly.

Home builts can be used commercially these days?

Tailwheel training is a private operation these days.

One school, at least, did tailwheel training in a Pitts S-2A but some students couldn’t hack it. The routine process is to start in a Citabria or Decathlon for both tailwheel and aerobatic training. Get the basics right at a lower hourly rate. Some basic aerobatic manoeuvres are so easy in a Pitts. Pitts flying demands advanced spin training significantly beyond that required for a spin endorsement.

Competition flying is fun and challenging. Cheaper to do regular, short practice aerobatic flights than wasting money on $1,000 hamburgers. It is addictive. (Writing this in Las Vegas at the World Advanced Aerobatic Championships.)

If you don't mind being denigrated & shouted at during training I'd agree. A less satisfactory training experience would be hard to find.

Many thanks djpil, can we expect a plethora of complaints about it not being commercial, as in the threads about skydiving. What requirements does the trainer have to fill, commercial & instructor rating?

here https://www.casa.gov.au/licences-and...flighttraining

Last time I spoke to him which was a while ago, he was looking at retirement? Still going?

PoppaJo - Bob is still going as strong as ever. He recently just did a fantastic low level Aeros Aeros display for Riverfire in Innisfai in the Decathlon. Sharp as a tack and somehow has found the fountain of youth elixir.

I’m surprised it hasn’t been floated yet - but my recommendation would be Jeremy Miller (UPRT Australia) at Archerfield.

I use him for peer review & as my coach at the AULT level - a bit of a passionate hobby of mine.

Great ability to teach, awesome / balanced / humble personality & he has a Decathlon, Pitts S2 & L300 Extra available.

I would not recommend initial TWU in a Pitts - suggest Decathlon to start, but no reason why after the initial a transition to Pitts couldn’t happen with a good mentor. Just makes the learning more “graduated” & less frustrating (for front & rear pilots!)

I didn't say that you could 'jump straight into' anything. Personally, I haven't jumped straight into any new TW type without training.

They certainly can, the rule goes along the lines of can't be used for licence issue training but can be used for ratings, endorsements and FA's

Do you have a reference for that rule please?

Easy going very nice bloke runs this school

I have to be careful not to be seen to be plugging any particular commercial organisations.

Never flew with Dan but worked with him for some years when he was with 32SQN on the Kingairs. Absolute gentleman and a lovely fellow to boot.

Likewise, djp.

​​​​​​​That will take me a little time to find, I'll get back to you.

Thanks. I think I’ve found it. 91.880 (d) Although elsewhere it states experimental aircraft not to be used for hire or reward.

CIVIL AVIATION SAFETY REGULATIONS 1998 - REG 91.880

Experimental aircraft--kinds of operations permitted For the purposes of subparagraph 91.875(2)(d)(ii), the kinds of operation are as follows:
(a) taking the aircraft to a place where maintenance on the aircraft is to be done;
(b) taking the aircraft from a place where maintenance on the aircraft has been done;
(c) testing the aircraft after maintenance;
(d) flying training (other than for the issue of a pilot licence);
(e) practice in flying the aircraft;
(f) carrying out a demonstration or test of the aircraft for sale;
(g) delivering the aircraft to a person under a contract of sale;
(h) for an amateur-built aircraft or a kit-built aircraft--flying training given to the aircraft's owner.

For amateur-built aircraft I only see:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b8783358a.jpeg
I’m more concerned about the following one, especially spinning:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....86c231e8e.jpeg
Whenever I’ve asked to see those records I’ve been disappointed.

Jeremy had a great reputation for this kind of training when he was here at Jandakot, We always recommend people go to him, worth the flight to Adelaide

A bit out there - I was offered to do a TW endorsement in a C152 Texas Taildragger conversion at a fairly good price.
Any advantage/disadvantage of doing that there before transitioning to a Super D?

Minimum of a PPLA, Flight Instructor Rating with design feature and flight activity endorsements.

The Super Decathlon ground handling is easier than a C152 Texas Taildragger.

There’s very little difference between a Cub and Citabria in terms of forward vision and aileron / rudder coordination. Dan now operates a Citabria, so can also complete GA TW certification.