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-   -   Gold Coast International Airport CTAF (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/647827-gold-coast-international-airport-ctaf.html)

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 20th Jul 2022 10:01


That was pointed out in the original post. If you can't see the point after reading it, then I'm not sure I can explain it more clearly for you.
No you firstly commented on Airservices lack of service, and it's safety implications, and then conflated that with the Airport situation of requiring visitors to reception to jump through some hoops.

Gold Coast Airport Authority has taken the petty "safety" bureaucracy to the next level.
The fact that the airport continues to enforce the rules forced on it by various governmental agencies has what relationship to the status of the airspace? They unfortunately don't have the option of "Oh we're a bit short staffed, so we're just going to leave the gates open for a while".
If you had asked why does CASA give ASA a free pass, yet everyone else in the industry has to abide by the rules irrespective, it would not have come across as just a rant against perceived GC pettiness.

Gne 20th Jul 2022 23:24


Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was (Post 11264602)
If you had asked why does CASA give ASA a free pass, yet everyone else in the industry has to abide by the rules irrespective, it would not have come across as just a rant against perceived GC pettiness.

In this regard Auditor-General Report No. 28 2021–22 Performance Audit makes interesting reading.

Gne

Lead Balloon 20th Jul 2022 23:48

Or, more accurately, if you had asked why does CASA give ASA a free pass and ATSB give both a free pass...

Mutual protection racket.

43Inches 21st Jul 2022 00:36

We also have to ask what penalties does ASA suffer for not supplying what is a safety sensitive service. Shouldn't there be stiff fines to ensure it has 100% coverage, enough to ensure they employ and pay controllers enough even for unexpected sickness. As for a tower service reverting to CTAF not affecting safety, why is there an expensive tower in the first place? This was happening BEFORE covid, regular patches in controller coverage even at Sydney and Melbourne. To blame covid alone is completely bogus. It's an employment pay and conditions argument, pure and simple, ASA does not employ and retain enough controllers so they have holes in the system.

sunnySA 21st Jul 2022 07:45


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11265020)
We also have to ask what penalties does ASA suffer for not supplying what is a safety sensitive service. Shouldn't there be stiff fines to ensure it has 100% coverage, enough to ensure they employ and pay controllers enough even for unexpected sickness. As for a tower service reverting to CTAF not affecting safety, why is there an expensive tower in the first place? This was happening BEFORE covid, regular patches in controller coverage even at Sydney and Melbourne. To blame covid alone is completely bogus. It's an employment pay and conditions argument, pure and simple, ASA does not employ and retain enough controllers so they have holes in the system.

Correct. A monopoly provider being squeezed to provide the "service" as cheaply as possible (affordable safety) and a $$ return to the government (dividend). Airservices Australia - mmm, maybe Lipservices (to safety) Australia?

topdrop 22nd Jul 2022 12:57

Retired a while now from Cairns ATC. We had a contingency plan for when either Tower &/or Approach service was not available. I know of 2 occasions when Tower was not available and the plan was put into action. NOTAM issued requiring pilots to phone for a briefing on procedures to follow - e.g. set course time, when to call Approach for clearance etc. Pilots followed procedures well and all worked quite well, apart from longer delays than normal. We also did a post event washup (incl with industry) to ascertain what could be improved. I am sure Gold Coast ATC would have something similar in place.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 26th Jul 2022 03:13


We had a contingency plan for when either Tower &/or Approach service was not available.
Isn't the contingency plan for airspace without ATC the same everywhere? Isn't it called "G"?

12-47 26th Jul 2022 22:00


Or, more accurately, if you had asked why does CASA give ASA a free pass and ATSB give both a free pass...
Wouldn't all be under the same minister would they?

43Inches 27th Jul 2022 00:32

Not quite the same as during peak hours, that looks like curfew hours only.

missy 27th Jul 2022 03:03


Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was (Post 11267752)
Isn't the contingency plan for airspace without ATC the same everywhere? Isn't it called "G"?

Nope, in the case of the capital city CTRs the surrounding airspace is designated a Temporary Restricted Airspace.

Wizofoz 27th Jul 2022 03:51


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11268430)
Not quite the same as during peak hours, that looks like curfew hours only.

Was still a pain and a joke.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 28th Jul 2022 09:58


Nope, in the case of the capital city CTRs the surrounding airspace is designated a Temporary Restricted Airspace.
So a failure to provide service is wrapped in nice shiny paper, and then we pretend there is still some form of service being provided.

missy 28th Jul 2022 13:37


Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was (Post 11269217)
So a failure to provide service is wrapped in nice shiny paper, and then we pretend there is still some form of service being provided.

No service, no pay. I'm sure the operators get a discount on the Terminal Nav charges...

extralite 30th Jul 2022 04:10


Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was (Post 11264602)
No you firstly commented on Airservices lack of service, and it's safety implications, and then conflated that with the Airport situation of requiring visitors to reception to jump through some hoops. The fact that the airport continues to enforce the rules forced on it by various governmental agencies has what relationship to the status of the airspace? They unfortunately don't have the option of "Oh we're a bit short staffed, so we're just going to leave the gates open for a while".
If you had asked why does CASA give ASA a free pass, yet everyone else in the industry has to abide by the rules irrespective, it would not have come across as just a rant against perceived GC pettiness.

I also literally said it was a rant against gold coast airport pettiness. Do you always start rage typing against a post before reading it in its entirety? Anyway it is a good sign a thread has run its course when it degenerates into pedants having a go at something which is pretty straight forward. No doubt if someone posted the sky was blue there would be 50 replies by pilots explaining why this may or may not be the case, how back in their day the sky was bluer, young pilots today don't know what blue is, and the CAR's and CAO's are very poorly written as to when the blue stops and the violet begins.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 30th Jul 2022 08:08

I didn't rage type anything. That's what rant typists do. I read your post in its entirety. It didn't make sense.

aussieflyboy 1st Aug 2022 06:17


Originally Posted by DROPS (Post 11271040)
Apparently QF won't operate in Class G now due insurance. So CG more likely to be TRA from now on to allow BN CEN to permit clearances in and out one at a time when the TWR has insufficient controllers - oops, I meant, when due OPN RQMNT.

QF are going to struggle in the Pilbara then…

tossbag 1st Aug 2022 10:07

Is 'rage typing' and 'rant typing' actually a thing?

(Asking for several pprune friends)

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 2nd Aug 2022 09:59

It is now:}

ausatc123 4th Aug 2022 03:12


Originally Posted by DROPS (Post 11271040)
Apparently QF won't operate in Class G now due insurance. So CG more likely to be TRA from now on to allow BN CEN to permit clearances in and out one at a time when the TWR has insufficient controllers - oops, I meant, when due OPN RQMNT.

I heard the opposite. They can't operate in TRA because of no insurance, but they will operate in G.


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