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-   -   Unfriendliest airport for GA in Australia? (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/646418-unfriendliest-airport-ga-australia.html)

Dick Smith 29th Apr 2022 01:34

Unfriendliest airport for GA in Australia?
 
I was planning a flight to Queensland and thought I would drop into Miles (YMLS) and spend some money in the local area, however I noticed in the ERSA it has the following points:

1. Restricted OPS – PPR FM AD APR all non scheduled OPS.
2. AD charges apply due to limited PRKG PPR 48 HR PN FM AD OPR for all ACFT.
3. Avdata fees apply.
4. AD code 2C.

Can you imagine if a shopping centre had similar rules for going into their parking area to spend some money? It would be crazy.

Is this Australia’s most unfriendly airport or are there others?

Please note, it is not as if it is privately owned – this is a council owned airport. You would think they would be encouraging people to come to the area.

Lead Balloon 29th Apr 2022 02:14

At least it has a toilet - or at least ERSA says so. YPPF doesn't have any public toilets any more, even land side. Western Downs Regional Council is merely among many others who treat the local airport as a business unit and are going to learn the really hard way that, on its narrow accounting methodologies, it will never make a 'profit'.

Ironpot 29th Apr 2022 02:19

Use Chinchilla - was in there a few weeks ago and pleasantly surprised how nice & friendly it was.

Lead Balloon 29th Apr 2022 02:32

Mildura's been working hard to marginalise GA. (Of course we all have at least $20,000,000 of public liability insurance, noting the airport's interest, in accordance with the airport's terms of use, don't we?)

Squawk7700 29th Apr 2022 02:39

YMLS might be council owned, but appears that they have outsourced management to this mob: https://amsaustralia.com

KRviator 29th Apr 2022 02:42


Originally Posted by Lead Balloon (Post 11222510)
Mildura's been working hard to marginalise GA. (Of course we all have at least $20,000,000 of public liability insurance, noting the airport's interest, in accordance with the airport's terms of use, don't we?)

That's better than the Gold Coast. They require $35,000,000 US Dollars worth of "Aviation Hull, Third Party, Passenger, Cargo & Mail Liability and Premises Liability including War Third Party Liability" insurance.

Warnervale has been PPR for yonks as well, despite also being owned by the Council. Their airport charges are astronomical too. When I was based on the Central Coast, it was cheaper to fly past Warnervale to Archerfield, do an hour of circuit training there, land, refuel, and fly back to the Coast than it was to fly 10NM and do an hour of circuits and refuel at Warnervale.


Originally Posted by Squawk7700 (Post 11222512)
YMLS might be council owned, but appears that they have outsourced management to this mob: https://amsaustralia.com

But AMS show both Miles and Chincilla as under their management. What's the difference there, as noted by Ironpot?
​​​​

Lead Balloon 29th Apr 2022 03:06

$35,000,000,000 USD insurance required? At least they’re providing comic relief, albeit inadvertently.

Roy Nolland 29th Apr 2022 03:11

Maybe PPR entry is due to what appears to be limited apron space and a cursory measure to avoid a sudden influx of unexpected aircraft causing congestion.
Out of interest Dick, did you make a call to see if it would be ok? Personally I've never been knocked back by an airport saying PPR in their ERSA entry. Mine site strips though are a different beast. You need to have at least 10 space shuttle landings in your log book and $1.2Bn liability insurance.

phlegm 29th Apr 2022 03:24

Moorabbin's landing fee for visiting GA aircraft is up to $65 or $70 now, which is ridiculous. Not to mention all the attempts to replace hangars with non-aviation related buildings.

Dick Smith 29th Apr 2022 04:48

Why would 48 hours prior notice be required for a parking position?

Lets say there is plenty of parking available and you have only decided that day to go to the airport. But you can't.

Its now become a new requirement for other airports.
Ayers Rock requires 24 hours prior notice and Mt Isa 48
Probably lots more.

And you need to have a Julia Gillard jacket to go to Wynyard.

triadic 29th Apr 2022 05:20

The airport runway is the most important main street in any town..

This title has been around for some years and is from the USA. see these links:

https://slideplayer.com/slide/1582249/

or this one

https://thatbaldwinguy.wordpress.com...t-in-any-town/



Clinton McKenzie 29th Apr 2022 06:40

From a judgment in the USA in a case where the local council was trying to grab the airport land:

Not only is general aviation important to the national infrastructure, but it serves a critical role as the cradle of aviation. The security and economic vitality of the United States depends on this laboratory of flight where future civilian and military pilots are born. Airports such as Solberg blossomed in an era when local young men turned their dreams of barnstorming into air dominance in World War II and led this country into its golden age. These dreams still live in our youth, and general aviation endures as the proving ground for future pilots from all walks of life.

Finally, there is a certain freedom that defines general aviation. Men and women throughout history gazed longingly at the soaring effortless freedom of birds, pondering release from the symbolic bondage of gravity. Only here can a man or woman walk onto some old farmer’s field and turn dreams into reality. As Charles Lindbergh once said: “What freedom lies in flying, what Godlike power it gives to men . . . I lose all consciousness in this strong unmortal space crowded with beauty, pierced with danger.”

Thus, general aviation airports serve a myriad of public purposes. The record substantiates the importance of general aviation and Solberg Airport’s role in particular. The Defendant offered documentary and testimonial evidence, which this Court found persuasive in its determination of public purpose. The objective evidence demonstrated that general aviation generates over a billion dollars in revenue and creates thousands of jobs across the state [of New Jersey]. It has a substantial economic impact on communities and contributes directly to local business transportation capability. The evidence also demonstrated that New Jersey’s general aviation infrastructure provides many health, welfare, and social benefits: emergency medical services, schools, fire and emergency services, law enforcement, tour operators, and traffic surveillance directly benefit from general aviation airports.

Ixixly 29th Apr 2022 06:55

I think like some others have said this isn't to try and scare people off but to prevent congestion at the Airport and a quick call to ascertain that all is good would be fine so very unlikely they'd knock you back. Unfortunately, they can't put in "Please give us a ring before you come on in" and have to keep to more "official language" like this that sounds unfriendly.

I remember many moons ago heading into Uluru as we couldn't make Alice Springs due last light, ERSA entry had me all kinds of scared with all the requirements for prior notice etc.., security rolled out as we were pulling into a parking spot and waved us to a different spot so I was getting a bit worried at this point we'd get a yelling at, fined or what have you. Turns out it wasn't marked but was a preferred spot for RFDS and the security was the nicest bloke I've met at an Airport, could not have been more helpful and accommodating!

Asturias56 29th Apr 2022 07:06

"From a judgment in the USA" - it's a sad fact that outside of N America the vast majority of the population sees anything aviation as a rich mans toy I'm afraid

Lead Balloon 29th Apr 2022 07:24

Looking at ERSA and the satellite photo for YMLS, it seems they've built a very nice runway and a very nice apron for 3 x ABV 5,700KG aircraft, with only one taxiway on and off the runway to that apron. I can therefore understand why they want to know who's coming and when, because everyone has no choice but to mix it at that taxiway choke point and apron.

If only they'd included a second taxiway - it only needed to be gravel - off to a patch of parking on grass or gravel at the northern end of the apron. The cost in addition to the works already done would have been rounding error numbers. That would give all us nobodies in bugsmashers a way stay out of the way of the ABV 5,700KG aircraft that have no choice but to use the apron and paved taxiway.

Plenty of places out there have signs and ERSA entries about where itinerant aircraft under 5,700KG must not and may park, and most of us are demonstrably capable of complying, without adult supervision.

TimmyTee 29th Apr 2022 08:51

+1 for Mildura. Same bloke who escorted me off the tarmac due to no ASIC wouldn’t let me back out to my own plane +4hrs later. No ASIC No Coach or something like that..

Lead Balloon 29th Apr 2022 09:05

Let's face it: You're a potential threat to western democracy, TT.

It was only a few years ago that the Mildura airport had to be pulled into line for presuming to 'ban' sport aircraft from 'its' airspace. Even CASA had to do something to 'protect' us, in the face of Mildura airport's pretentions to an airspace dictatorship. But once we're on the ground, we're the playthings of the airport...

thunderbird five 29th Apr 2022 09:12

TIMMY - curious how you resolved that situation. What happened next. Or are you still stuck there?

Lead Balloon 29th Apr 2022 09:20

I'm guessing TT found a non-terrorist (ASIC holder) from the local aviation community to do escort duties to ensure TT didn't detonate the explosives vest hidden in the back of his aircraft.

Capt Fathom 29th Apr 2022 11:15

This came up in the Birdsville thread…..
When planning to arrive in Miles for a pit stop with your caravan in tow, do you have to give 2 days notice?
What is it with airport owners that makes them so special?


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