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-   -   Airplane With The Nicest Handling (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/642970-airplane-nicest-handling.html)

Uplinker 6th Oct 2021 10:48


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11121956)
I'd be very worried if an aircraft that was flown by the computer and you just pointed it where to go didn't fly right. I mean you are not really controlling these large beasts, the computers and hydraulics do that..

my bold.

A common misconception and not true.

The BAe146 was a dream to fly but you could feel the control servo-tabs struggling and hitting the end stops during very turbulent approaches, because they ran out of power and response.
Larger airliners must have hydraulics to provide the huge control forces required. So you then need artificial feel to hopefully prevent the pilots over stressing the aircraft, or you go the FBW route and not have artificial feel because the FBW will prevent you over-stressing.*


*(Note the rudder on Airbus FBW is conventional, not FBW protected and therefore has artificial feel. Conventional rudder is a safety feature allowing control in the extremely unlikely event that all five FBW computers are lost simultaneously).

43Inches 6th Oct 2021 10:57

The post was in regard to the A330 which has no manual control links, as per all Airbus since the A320. All FBW, so you can never turn off the autopilot, just operate in degraded modes of it.

* except yes the weird rudder cabling, which is getting removed in the Neos.

Right20deg 6th Oct 2021 11:40


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11122147)
The post was in regard to the A330 which has no manual control links, as per all Airbus since the A320. All FBW, so you can never turn off the autopilot, just operate in degraded modes of it.

* except yes the weird rudder cabling, which is getting removed in the Neos.

Agreed and there is the option ( not always taken) of changing the input mode to a competent crew member to achieve a sell formed outcome..... AF 447

Dennis at Enstrom 6th Oct 2021 16:58

Someone mentioned that the Bucker Jungmann was the only airplane that lived up to the hype. I can confirm that's true. Beautifully balanced, light on the controls, responsive, yet not twitchy and no bad habits. However my RV-8 is all that, plus it's twice as fast and has a heater. I sold the Bucker and kept the RV-8.

Honorable mention goes to the Cessna 170B. Also well balanced and light on the controls, with no bad habits. Not super responsive, but in a respectable 4 seat family plane that was fine. Cessna 150 is also a very nice flying airplane, along with the 140. I suspect most of those early Cessnas fly nicely. Unfortunately not so with the later ones. My Cardinal RG flies like a truck. Caravan wasn't any better.

Worst airplane I ever flew was the Aeronca Chief. No control feel other than heavy drag in the system, sloppy and slow response, and didn't have enough power to get out of it's own way.

David Charlwood 6th Oct 2021 22:55

Chipmunk (particularly with the short-chord rudder, C-47 Dakota.
As an aside, the man who converted me onto the Bristol 170 Freighter said "If you can fly this aeroplane well, then you have forgotten how to fly!"

EXDAC 6th Oct 2021 23:14


Originally Posted by Dennis at Enstrom (Post 11122307)
Worst airplane I ever flew was the Aeronca Chief. No control feel other than heavy drag in the system, sloppy and slow response, and didn't have enough power to get out of it's own way.

You are trying to shatter some fond memories of the time I owned a share in one. My recollections are the lack of brakes for the instructor (I had to check out all of my partners) and the fact that this one had a preference to go anywhere but straight down the runway. I swear I wasn't grey until I started instructing in that 11BC.

RENURPP 6th Oct 2021 23:59

I'm surprised the Twotter hasn't made itself to the list as yet.

flywatcher 7th Oct 2021 01:03

Dornier 27 for the airframe, lousy engine

KRUSTY 34 7th Oct 2021 03:24

D55 Baron. Noisy, tough, and absolutely delightful to fly. Ergonomics ok, after about 500 hours!

Never flown a Chippie, although it gets a pretty good rap here. For me the best light aerobatic mount was the little Victor Airtourer, with the 180 hp donk of course.


blind pew 7th Oct 2021 05:44

Only flew the lower powered air tourer and demonstrated looping to by little brother over the sea off Sunderland..stalled over the top and it continued seawards on its back until I used both Rudder and aileron to get the nose down. Second attempt did the same and saw the altimeter wind through 500ft during the recovery. Brother said he had seen enough thank you.

Pilotette 7th Oct 2021 05:47

Best: Aerostar, Chipmunk, Caravan

Worst: Seneca, fully loaded C207 (even though I still have a soft spot for them)

Cloudee 7th Oct 2021 06:23


Originally Posted by Dennis at Enstrom (Post 11122307)
Someone mentioned that the Bucker Jungmann was the only airplane that lived up to the hype. I can confirm that's true. Beautifully balanced, light on the controls, responsive, yet not twitchy and no bad habits. However my RV-8 is all that, plus it's twice as fast and has a heater. I sold the Bucker and kept the RV-8.

Finally someone has voted for the Vans RV8! My 8 is the sweetest handling thing Iíve flown. Havenít flow a chipmunk but perhaps someone who has flown both an RV8 and chippie could comment.

Fred Gassit 7th Oct 2021 07:21

I've got an RV-8, it feels very similar to the Chipmunk but goes 60-70kts faster so does tend to be a bit heavier at speed.
Surprised by all the Caravan fans out there, I reckon it flies the way it looks....

Uplinker 7th Oct 2021 09:07


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11122147)
The post was in regard to the A330 which has no manual control links, as per all Airbus since the A320. All FBW......


Au contraire, mon ami. Here is a cut and paste from my copy of the Airbus A330 FCOM. Possibly an earlier MSN series than you fly:

"MECHANICAL RUDDER CONTROL
Conventional mechanical rudder control is available from the pilot's rudder pedals.",

and my copy of A320 and A321 FCOM has identical wording.

The THS can also be moved manually by the pilots via a mechanical link, (with hydraulic power).

Direct rudder and THS control is so-called 'mechanical back-up' , which enables straight and level flight in the highly unlikely event that all five FBW computers need to be reset.

ShyTorque 7th Oct 2021 09:45

Iíve flown the Chipmunk a few times and itís nice enough, but far nicer is the Vans RV-4.

Cornish Jack 7th Oct 2021 10:12

Surprisingly only two aficionados of Lockheed's masterpiece 3 holer and its DLC !
Inarguably the worst by several 'country miles' was the Miles (later Humbly Pudge) Marathon. Its only saving grace was the proximity of the gear lever to that for the flaps, and their similarity.! The consequent 'errors' lead to its swift demise :E
PS - for hands on satisfaction, knowing that you, and not the aircraft, have produced an acceptable outcome, go 'fling wing', and that extension to your lightest touch, the Whirlwind 10 !! :E

Vonrichthoffen 7th Oct 2021 11:33

DH 104 Sea Devon, B747 ( 1,2,3,4,8 )

blind pew 7th Oct 2021 16:02

Worst handling
 
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....bf7d17e64.jpeg
Without doubt..a kestrel with added centre section that weighed 110 plus kilos and was mounted on a gun carriage type structure. The whole wing weighed a quarter of a ton and the one I test flew had Venetian blind slats mounted vertically either side of the rudder to keep the airflow along the chord..unsuccessfully. Good men were known to run away and hide at rigging time.

Stuka Child 7th Oct 2021 16:13

For those who complain about the Seneca 1 in the flare, using 10 degrees of flaps makes it a lot easier. Handles much better in crosswind too. Only reason you'd want full flaps is if runway length is an issue. It's not the most nimble aircraft (to not say it's a fat cow), and it takes some muscle but I always found it quite endearing.

Also, someone else said they don't like the 737-200, and I'm here sitting like whatttt? What could you possibly not like about it?

Sailvi767 7th Oct 2021 21:22

The best jet I have flown was the A4 Superfox. The best piston aircraft the F1 Rocket.

POBJOY 7th Oct 2021 21:33

Not on the list
 

Originally Posted by RENURPP (Post 11122466)
I'm surprised the Twotter hasn't made itself to the list as yet.


Its called crosswinds !!! (Oh and that stupid nosewheel steering bit)




Peter Fanelli 7th Oct 2021 23:13


Originally Posted by Pinky the pilot (Post 11121587)
Did my CPL and initial MECIR (plus several renewals) in a Seneca 1, with the late Tony Kingham.

TK used to say that if you could fly a Seneca 1, you could fly anything!


Did four channel runs in it, after all those landings yes it is possible to land a Seneca nicely.

havick 7th Oct 2021 23:13

My 2c. Bell 412

RENURPP 7th Oct 2021 23:30


Originally Posted by POBJOY (Post 11122906)
Its called crosswinds !!! (Oh and that stupid nosewheel steering bit)

X-winds. Oh well I guess some pilots cannot handle a crosswind, but the aircraft was certainly capable.

The nose wheel steering was for taxiing. If it was used for what it was intended for it worked fine.

Arfur Dent 8th Oct 2021 06:54

English Electric Lightning Mk 6
Cirrus SR 22
Boeing 747-400


Bengerman 8th Oct 2021 10:35

Best: A318
Worst: A319
Weird?

Less Hair 8th Oct 2021 10:46

What is so different then?

mikehallam 8th Oct 2021 11:46

Rans S6-116 !

scotbill 8th Oct 2021 12:17

The early B757s were a delight to fly and the light controls were amazingly well-predicted by the simulator. After a few tail scrapes, Boeing changed the weighting to the extent that I thought there was an actual problem with the first modified aircraft I flew.

Jenna Talia 8th Oct 2021 12:41

Best turbine - Beech Super King Air 200.
Best twin piston - Aerostar.
Best single - Mooney 201.

David J Pilkington 8th Oct 2021 23:18


Originally Posted by blind pew (Post 11122525)
Only flew the lower powered air tourer and demonstrated looping to by little brother over the sea off Sunderland..stalled over the top and it continued seawards on its back until I used both Rudder and aileron to get the nose down. Second attempt did the same and saw the altimeter wind through 500ft during the recovery. Brother said he had seen enough thank you.

Looping figures always needed more speed than what the book recommended. I owned a 100 hp Airtourer for some years but it really needs 150 hp. Problem is that the Super Airtourer 150 has diddly squat useful load.

The T-6 model was the best, in my opinion. It is approved for all the usual aerobatics at maximum weight in semi-acrobatic category so has a useful load. It is strange as FAR 23 doesn't have a semi-acrobatic category and the TCDS doesn't explain it - I wonder what CASA thinks of that?

The T-6 doesn't have the inboard wing stall strips and the one that I flew often had a sudden, large wing drop at the stall (flaps up) that I could not prevent so I remain surprised that it was certified but perhaps other examples are different? The rudder is too small. Poor dutch roll damping. Springs in the aileron control system don't make the ailerons nice, in my opinion. So, a long way down my list of airplanes with the nicest handling even though I enjoy flying them.

Commander Taco 9th Oct 2021 03:02

Best single - Chipmunk
Worst - Beech 18. What a cantankerous beast anywhere near a runway - would never take the dirty dart in the same direction on landing more than once in a row.
Favourite jets - B727-200 and B777-300ER.
I’m surprised the Airbus FBW has some fans. I found them to be joyless airplanes - you just nudge the sidestick around to make it go where you wanted it to.

Sailvi767 9th Oct 2021 13:38


Originally Posted by Commander Taco (Post 11123496)
Best single - Chipmunk
Worst - Beech 18. What a cantankerous beast anywhere near a runway - would never take the dirty dart in the same direction on landing more than once in a row.
Favourite jets - B727-200 and B777-300ER.
I’m surprised the Airbus FBW has some fans. I found them to be joyless airplanes - you just nudge the sidestick around to make it go where you wanted it to.

I have no idea either why some credit the Airbus series as good flying aircraft. They use a very basic FBW system that provides zero feedback. Most fly it by bumping the side stick and Airbus really doesn’t want you hand flying it at all.

RichardJones 9th Oct 2021 16:21

Hawker Hunter by far.

Qualified on: B707,B747, Lear 30 series, Various Dassult/Falcons and HS 125. Also many piston powered A/C

PPRuNe Dispatcher 10th Oct 2021 08:21

I was honoured and fortunate enough to meet Captain Eric 'Winkle' Brown, CBE, DSC, AFC, Hon FRAeS, RN who holds the record for the most types of aircraft flown, 487 not including variants.

He's no longer with us, having passed on in 2016 at the age of 97.I asked him what was his favourite aircraft and he said the de Havilland Hornet. I think his published words express why it was so good : ď"The view from the cockpit, positioned right forward in the nose beneath a one-piece aft-sliding canopy was truly magnificent. The Sea Hornet was easy to taxi, with powerful brakes... the takeoff using 25 lb (2,053 mm Hg, 51" Hg) boost and flaps at one-third extension was remarkable! The 2,070 hp (1,540 kW) Merlin 130/131 engines fitted to the prototypes were to be derated to 18 lb (1,691 Hg, 37" Hg) boost and 2,030 hp (1,510 kW) as Merlin 133/134s in production Sea Hornets, but takeoff performance was to remain fantastic. Climb with 18 lb boost exceeded 4,000 ft/min (1,200 m/min)"...

"In level flight the Sea Hornet's stability about all axes was just satisfactory, characteristic, of course, of a good day interceptor fighter. Its stalling characteristics were innocuous, with a fair amount of elevator buffeting and aileron twitching preceding the actual stall"...

"For aerobatics the Sea Hornet was absolute bliss. The excess of power was such that manoeuvres in the vertical plane can only be described as rocket-like. Even with one propeller feathered the Hornet could loop with the best single-engine fighter, and its aerodynamic cleanliness was such that I delighted in its demonstration by diving with both engines at full bore and feathering both propellers before pulling up into a loop!Ē

sandpit 10th Oct 2021 09:43

Must be showing my age - 727 - what a machine.
350 KIAS to 10 miles was possible - no QARs to worry about!

Dan Winterland 11th Oct 2021 12:16

Glider: ASW19
Light Aircraft: Chipmunk
Military: Hawk
Airliner: VC10

Chiefttp 12th Oct 2021 11:46

I’m surprised nobody mentioned the DC-10. Many colleagues of mine who flew a lot of different airliners always mentioned the DC-10 as the nicest handling jet they ever flew.
Personally, the 767 is my pick for best handling.

Saint-Ex 12th Oct 2021 15:49

Sea Fury, Bucker Jungmeister.

Veruka Salt 12th Oct 2021 21:09

767-300 ER with the CF6-80 donks. Best 185T fighter jet ever.


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