Who Would You Rather Fly With?
 

Who would you rather fly with?

Pilot 1: A pilot who has an old but significant mental health history, has been completely honest about it and upfront with CASA at all times (regardless of the grief and hell they put you through for it). Has received adequate treatment, recovered completely and stable for a number of years

or

Pilot 2: A current type rated airline pilot flying RPT who has over 10,000 hours flying experience and no previous mental health history at all. Although, one day they suffer a traumatic experience (car crash, mayday situation in the air etc) and through no fault of their own slowly overtime develop symptoms of mental illness PTSD, Depression etc. Yet out of fear for losing their medical certificates, the associated stigma and CASA taking an unreasonably harsh position in relation to them they decide to not get treatment at all and continue to fly untreated

It is a serious question and no doubt this topic has been bought up before. However, I remember reading an article back in the January edition of Australian flying about this and recently came across it again which lead me to asking this question.

Maybe I should re-word my question in order to get a response. Which pilot in the scenarios above places air safety in significantly more danger, Pilot 1 or Pilot 2? The answer seems pretty obvious does it not? Then again on the other hand maybe everyone feels that ignorance is bliss and people would just prefer to pretend that the Pilot 2 scenario is not currently happening.

Australian CASA are actually pretty good about dealing with pilots who are being treated for mental health issues. As long as you are stable and continue treatment they can usually get flying again within a reasonable amount of time.

FAA will make jump through endless hoops which will take at least 12 months to complete and then you may get your medical back. This is why I think the USA and many other countries have big problems with non disclosure. Apart from a few western nation's I believe flying on any type of anti depressant or anxiety medication is forbidden.

I would much rather fly with someone who got help than keeps it hidden.

I would much rather fly with someone who was honest and up front about it with CASA as well, as long as they hold the appropriate medical certificates of course and follow the required treatments. The most dangerous pilot in the world is the one who is suffering from mental illness and remains untreated on purpose no matter what their personal reason may be for doing so.

I have actually heard before that CASA is quite good about dealing with pilots who are being treated for mental health issues. I just wonder if those pilots ever do get their Class 1 medicals back after initially losing them?

The whole subject is a minefield. I have a friend who is worth many, many, millions having built his own business. He has a childlike side to his nature. Following separation from his wife at her request (she had the financial split all arranged in advance), he made the mistake of taking up with another lady. This caused his children to arc up as they felt some of their inheritance was now under threat.

But back to mental health. our friend was bullied by his children to the point where he was found with the rope over the beam. Straight into a psychiatric ward. It took two months of work by his new. partner to get him out He is now stigmatized as mentally fragile, his children are still bullying him to the point where he terminated his new relationship. He is living in a caravan on his own in one of his factories, major medication required. He bought his daughter a new house. She still bullies him over access to grandchildren. Our best guess now is that his children will try to have him committed to get their hands on more money. He seems to now be surrounded by leaches - relatives and health professionals who have a vested interest in his non recovery. This is almost. “one flew out of the cuckoos nest “ territory.

The moral of the story: be very, very, careful about confessing any mental health issues to anyone because once you are in “the system” it is very hard to get out.

One could ask show me a sane person? What's normal?
We are all human, there's is no one case that describes any of us!

A very good point. I have flown with F/O's who can't sit still for a second and are always aggressive, I have flown with F/O's who were very good at what they did but one dodgy message on a mobile has put here mind in a completely different orbit from where they were on the last sector. I have flown with Captains who were psychopathic bullies and walked a very fine line between what was right and what wasn't. I have flown with Captains who always wanted to push the envelope and were just waiting to see where your boundaries were. I have also flown with Captains that many other F/O's detested flying with and I have enjoyed the day at work. There is no "who would you rather fly with" question. Your job is to keep the other bloke on the rails in terms of SOPs. If someone starts to demonstrate behaviors that are not compatible with a modern flight deck sort it out or get off at the next landing.

In the context of the current situation where many pilots (and others) find themselves unemployed or under-employed, I think there will be many crew members in the future who find themselves under considerable personal or financial stress. Inevitably this must have some effect on their performance at work.

Now more than ever is when employers (especially the large ones where cuts have been deep and the notification quite impersonal) need to be bolstering their employee assistance programs. Surely in such times the temptation will be to cut back on what the employer may regard as "non-essential" costs, but the need may be greater than ever.

Absolutely. ‘Normal’ people are just crazy people you don’t know very well.

I don’t know anyone that doesn’t have at least a couple of quirks, but I guess the question really is; do those facets of their makeup cause them to be dangerous in the air?

How many accidents are caused by people having psychotic episodes while flying? Personally, I’d take mild PTSD over careless and overconfident any day.

I’d take option 3: None of the above.

Although it must be noted that a traumatic event in ones life does always not result in PTSD. Despite what you read, there are a surprisingLy large number of stoic and robust individuals in the profession.

I’d go so far as to say that because it’s such a brutal career to break into and progress in that it’s mainly those with traits of resilience, stoicism and robustness which survive long enough to accrue 10,000 hours.

you are probably right to some degree it is a tuff business, years and years of commercial pressure, never knowing if you have a job tomorrow, flying with others who range from "feet putting to sleep" crew to outright ego maniacs!
Its a game I am so grateful my offspring where never interested in, they dodged a bullet especially considering this crazy time in the world!

I wonder if it is a perennial civilian airline flying issue?

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I’d go so far as to say that because it’s such a brutal career to break into and progress in that it’s mainly those with traits of resilience, stoicism and robustness which survive long enough to accrue 10,000 hours.

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Slight thread drift. I flew in the RAAF for 18 years before reluctantly leaving to fly civil. Reluctantly, meaning to avoid a succession of desk jobs. Those 18 years were enjoyable because the job was secure and I got free travel, board and lodging. The varied aircraft types were fantastic and all free.

Apart from one instructor when learning to fly, I don't recall any seriously objectionable personalities in the cockpit from Group Captains to lower ranks. Yet, for some reason, the people one sometimes flew with in the cockpit of airliners were different. Defensive, nit-picking autocratic and one was conscious of the ever present fear of failing a simulator session and thus a career jeopardized.

Strangely enough there were also former RAAF pilots who as airline pilots turned out to be autocratic pricks as they went up the food chain. I never knew why.

I would happily fly with both of them. Such is instructing.

You are of course right lucille that a traumatic event does not always result in PTSD. However, in the right circumstances it can and does happen.

It is far more likely that scenario 2 does currently occur in aviation throughout the world. Although of course everyone hopes that this would be a very rare occurrence and that most pilots would get treatment. Maybe the pilot in option 2 is trying to be stoic but is very clearly not succeeding, no one can endure pain or hardship forever without it significantly affecting them in negative ways. It would be wrong to suggest otherwise.

Besides, the main issue is not the PTSD itself, the main issue is not getting treatment for it and remaining silent out of fear of losing their livelihood, income etc. Which ironically enough would cause them to become even more unwell. That is what makes it so dangerous as you are likely never even going to know that the person you are flying with is struggling and currently completely untreated and potentially severely depressed. Maybe ignorance is bliss as to pilot 2's actual mental state, but ignorance can also be a very dangerous thing too.

Just on another note, saying that you wouldn't fly with either of them in my opinion is just as dangerous as well because you are then encouraging other people (especially the pilot in option 2) to not say anything at all and will therefore make it less likely that the pilot in scenario 2 gets treatment. The public perception that pilots are absolutely perfect and never succumb to any form of mental illness at all is down right dangerous.

I think CASA is making good progress in relation to these sorts of issues but there does need to be some more public awareness around it which is why the article back in the January edition of Australian flying is such an interesting read.

Anyways, just my opinion.

Centy ...'you never knew why'? Cause these pricks as you put it had freedom in the Airlines to be just as you say. In the forces as you would know there was discipline, structure, rank & respect, as much as the Airline boffins 'think' they have the same they don't!

Since the 'Wrong Brothers' first left the ground the art of flying for a living involved crawling over other pilots to get where you want!

Is allowed in OZ, one study found that medicated pilots had the best safety record when compared to all others, but because of the small statistical base it was difficult to draw definitive conclusions.

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I’d take option 3: None of the above.

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How would you know? There are a lot more of both types in the cockpit than you think.

Oz is a western nation!

So why then did some of the biggest "pricks" come from said institution, as even Centarus admits? I've heard some of said "pricks" were just as big a "prick" in a blue uniform as they are in a white one.

And they were just the ones who came from the Police Force.