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-   -   Erasing Safety? (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/632761-erasing-safety.html)

Sunfish 25th May 2020 21:32

Erasing Safety?
 
Unless I am mistaken, which is always possible, the latest charts I’ve seen have some airstrips marked with a big fat “U” - which I take to mean uncertified. Other strips or ALA, for example the dig tree strip, have been completely removed. What is going on?

Biggles_in_Oz 25th May 2020 23:17

Is there a 'birdy'-looking symbol near the 'U' ?
If so, then according to the legend it means ultralight aircraft nearby.

CaptainMidnight 25th May 2020 23:34

The charts have a legend that explains the symbology ......

Also this details changes:

CHANGES TO AIP AERONAUTICAL CHARTS EFFECTIVE 21 MAY 2020

Lookleft 26th May 2020 00:12

So how is any of this "erasing safety"?

Super Cecil 26th May 2020 01:35

Disappointed there was only 31 pages, surely they could have padded it out with a few More "This page is intentionally blank". There could have also been another 20 or so pages of disclaimers plus another 20 or so of credits and references.

Styx75 26th May 2020 02:07


Originally Posted by Super Cecil (Post 10793382)
Disappointed there was only 31 pages, surely they could have padded it out with a few More "This page is intentionally blank". There could have also been another 20 or so pages of disclaimers plus another 20 or so of credits and references.

There isn't a single "This page is intentionally left blank" page in there, nor any disclaimers, references or credits. So how do you figure 'More'?

Is this the only thing you have to whine about today? Its a list of changes, it takes as many pages as is needed.

wishiwasupthere 26th May 2020 02:08

I can just imagine Sunfish sitting at the dining room table, frothing at the mouth looking incredulously at the big fat U while he was looking at his chart (without checking the chart legend first!), already working out in his head what he was going to say in his Pprune post and how he could blame CASA for this disgraceful change and the amount of danger it will put us all in. :}

Styx75 26th May 2020 02:14

Think Biggles might be on the score about the 'U'. Looking forward to getting a blasting endorsement from RaAus...

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b89a05d6c8.png

Checklist Charlie 26th May 2020 02:17

"1.4 While every effort is made by Airservices to ensure the accuracy of international data contained in Airservices’ charts and publications, international data is based on, or contains, information provided from regional governments or third party sources over which Airservices has no control, and which may not always be completely up to date."

Silly me, I thought the AirServices produced AIP et al was supposed to be reliable operationally valid information.

CC

Styx75 26th May 2020 02:30


Originally Posted by Checklist Charlie (Post 10793397)
Silly me, I thought the AirServices produced AIP et al was supposed to be reliable operationally valid information.

It would be quite an ask to have Air Services go survey the height of every mountain, and measure the length of every runway so they can take full accountability for their documents. I think the cost tradeoff for having 3rd parties provide their own information to Air Services is sound.

ozbiggles 26th May 2020 02:49

I’m offended by the term ‘manned ballon’, I think there should be a royal commission into the use of this terminology. It should be chaired by Dick Smith and we should look to America for the way they do it. We can then agree at a federal level what the term should be and the states can lock their borders if it is close to election time.

Squawk7700 26th May 2020 02:56

There’s your safety risk right there in the legend. Model rockets and Plumes! Imagine
if one of those hit an aircraft, oh
the humanity!

TBM-Legend 26th May 2020 03:30


Originally Posted by wishiwasupthere (Post 10793393)
I can just imagine Sunfish sitting at the dining room table, frothing at the mouth looking incredulously at the big fat U while he was looking at his chart (without checking the chart legend first!), already working out in his head what he was going to say in his Pprune post and how he could blame CASA for this disgraceful change and the amount of danger it will put us all in. :}

When the 'Mola Tecta' speaks it must be gospel......

Sunfish 26th May 2020 04:01

A circle with a “u” in the middle of it. The actual paper chart may have a description in the legend, the Ozrunways charts legends don’t show it and the strips marked “u” no longer appear in Ersa as far as I can tell. The AIP says nowt.

Deliberately removing information from pilots is not too bright from a safety point of view.

De_flieger 26th May 2020 04:19

I don't know which version of OzRunways you use, but when I go to select a different map on OzRunways, above the list of selectable maps (VFR, ERC, TAC etc) there is the option to select "Legend".

Despite what many may believe, this is not in fact a compliment regarding the user's piloting skills, but brings up an image of a legend that explains the symbols present on the map...scroll down a bit and theres a U and Biggles's angular birdy symbol with the explanation that it refers to locations where ultralights are present.

I don't believe this is a deliberate removal of information at all, it's been there for ages - that symbol has had that meaning for at least 15-20 years that I know of.

Middle.Marker 26th May 2020 04:25

I can’t find an example in any of my charts can you post a screenshot?

Capn Bloggs 26th May 2020 04:52

Sunfish, what chart has this U in a circle? And what airport is it?

alphacentauri 26th May 2020 05:06

It means that the airfield is 'Unverified'. It gets this status whilst Airservices tries to establish reliable contact with the owner in order to keep the data maintained. If no contact is established or the owner is unwilling to maintain the data, the information is removed from the charts.

Thats what the U is for.
Thats why some ALA's have been removed.

Establishment of a data originator is a CASR 175 requirement. No data should be published without a recorded data originator.

Alpha

Lead Balloon 26th May 2020 05:25

In monochrome so it was small enough to download. Lots of them. You’re ‘safer’ Sunfish, if you don’t know about these places rather than use an ‘unverified’ ALA in an pinch.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e03867032.jpeg

De_flieger 26th May 2020 05:29

alphacentauri, looking at the legend on my OzRunways chart, the relevant section of which looks like a scan of the WAC chart legend, there are a few different airfield symbols, including the following:

-A circle with a thin inner concentric circle, which represents "Aerodrome - licenced",
-A circle without that thinner concentric circle, representing "Aerodrome/ALA - verified Airservices has a responsible person registered for the location and associated information confirmed"
-A broken circle with 5 breaks in the outline, representing "Aerodrome/ALA - Unverified Airservices has not been advised of a responsible person for this location. Status and serviceability are unknown."

I can't see a reference to the U indicating "unverified" on any chart legends, instead the broken circle is used to indicate an unverified ALA. The same chart legends do use a U to indicate ultralight aircraft activity.


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