Qantas Academy Questions
 

A mate of mine is thinking about applying for this program, however it seems there are many pitfalls, such as no guaranteed job at the end of it all.

Straight from their FAQ:

4. If I successfully graduate from the Academy will I be guaranteed a job at Qantas?

No. However, after graduation, students will automatically join the Qantas Group’s talent pool, have access to our General Aviation partners and be part of the Academy Alumni Program, all of which combined, will help to fast track your place in the recruitment process.

Different airlines have different entry requirements and it’s best to contact prospective employers to seek advice on this matter. It is common for regional airlines to require a minimum of 500 multi-engine command hours for employment. Major airlines usually require 500 multi-engine command hours, 1500 hours total flying time and an ATPL for direct entry.


It’s the second paragraph that gets me.

After $150k “hey youngin thanks for the cash now off ya go, have fun in GA or airline direct entry”

But whoops you don’t have 500 hours of multi engine command.

Essentially this is just getting a Qantas branded pilots licence, is it not?

Yes, and if you rock up a for a non-QANTAS job with a QANTAS branded licence, the employer knows you are in the "talent pool" for QANTAS and arguably this could work against you in securing a non QANTAS job

My question is, who are their ‘General Aviation partners”???

There is only one reason Qantas and Virgin have established their own pipeline...and that’s to address a structural pilot supply problem.

If you were selected into the Qantas program you would be crazy to not accept it based on the above logic. There is no guarantees in any job, let alone at training stage. What Qantas has is several subsidiary airlines and that means jobs.

I know what ticket I’d want.

The better questions would be:
What are the experience and quality of instructors? Where are they coming from and why?
Is the course good value? If you live in Adelaide, is it worth moving?

So back to the top, there is a supply problem of pilots. Training with a Qantas ticket is unlikely to restrict future employment, but it might give you a leg up.

Structural pilot supply? The only structural supply I can think of is structural unemployment. Which is a mismatch of skills between employers and jobseekers.

These airline backed flying schools are just a way to keep an oversupply of pilots fighting for the few jobs on offer every year. Lots of applications means downward pressure on wages.

You are spot on.

They also want quality control and to dictate future culture.

However, back to the questions asked...Is it going to matter where you train? Personally, I don’t think so. Is attending the Qantas school going to help you. Maybe, maybe not. It will certainly work in many students favour. But Is the environment that will exist within that school going to suit everyone? It sure will be competitive.

Fact is aviation is brutal. You slave away building hours, sit interviews...get rejected. Sit interviews...get accepted and put on hold files. Little glimmer of hopes are crushed as you realise the hold file can mean nothing. You move cities, countries and the worst bit....some people seem to get what you want so easily.

You want to give yourself the best opportunity. Currently, that is with an airline sponsored training course. If you don’t get a job due to a million possibilities, you’ve still given yourself the best shot, and if I was a prospective student, that’s what I’d want. (I don’t know the costs, so I assume all is equal but appreciate it’s a valid consideration)

That’s exactly what I’m thinking, the long term intention is to quash future salaries and conditions in the industry, albeit behind the guise of an “academy” where the public think that Qantas actually gives a damn, and is actually contributing to the industry...

Its just perplexing that with the abundance of qualified professionals in GA, military, instructing, regionals and not to mention plenty in the university qlink partnership pipeline, they then go and set up this academy.

I understand it would be mighty useful if this shortage was at an apocalyptic level and they needed pilots left right and centre but I can’t see this happening anytime soon.

Good luck to them, so long as they go in with their eyes wide open - especially with regards to the VET loans.

I'm supposing that this training will not be preparing them in any way for anything other than airline work, it's quite a risky basket to put all your eggs in.

Of course this sort of thing was around when I was a fugly in the 80s, funny but there was a "pilot shortage" then as well!

surely this is just another FTA venue to fuel growth of overseas demand in the long term? The fact that is branded may allow a higher price of training to be charged... sounds all too familiar

Which would be a problem in the past but now considering CASA don’t require 500 multi command for an ATPL nor do QF, VA, Qlink, VARA, Tigerair, JQ, or any other major airline here or overseas have a requirement for 500 hours multi engine command for recruitment it isn’t a problem at all.

In fact what is more desired is multi crew time so advice to youngsters out there get yourself those multi crew hours up ASAP. And the obvious best way to do it is join a cadet program like this academy.

Is employment guaranteed? Nope, but no employment is guaranteed in this life. If you pass the course to the acceptable standard and the economy isn’t in a downturn when you finish I can’t see why you wouldn’t be prioritised for recruitment.

Does anyone know who the General Aviation partners are, and what sort of flying they do?

Will it be a program similar to what some Regional Airlines in the USA do where you do an interview with the airline, undergo training (CPL, ATPL etc) and then work as an instructor for 1500 hours? Once they get the 1500 hours, the cadets are guaranteed an “interview” with the Regional Airline?

For some it could involve work as an instructor. As Australia (and the rest of the world) doesn’t have the 1500hr rule then it will more probably involve direct employment post training on anything from F/O on a Dash 8 to an A320 or S/O on a 787 or A330, but it’s all up to what is needed at the time.

It would be extremely attractive if that was the case. I understand employment cannot be guaranteed due to student performance, economic factors etc, but if they could at the very least guarantee employment based on satisfactory performance during the course, and where a position becomes available in the group. But then again this isn't a cadetship.
Nonetheless it's still a gamble of sorts since there are cadetships available that do stipulate employment upon successful completion of course.

If they want to train upwards of a few hundred a year, and if this pilot shortage sees the group employ a few hundred new pilots a year, where does that leave the wealth of experience that come from GA, military, instructing, regionals and overseas airlines. Would these academy graduates be prioritised though?

Exactly that: there is no pilot shortage in Aus. It’s an industry-perpetuated myth, and a mirage to all young aspiring pilots. Thee is a shortage in some other countries.

There's no shortage of low time pilots. There might be a shortage of experienced pilots but you won't address that by churning out more low time pilots.

You can only churn out low time pilots. The rest is up to them and fate!

I don’t think this is a bad thing but you need to have the right mentality. You need to go in here and act as though it’s a course long job interview. It’s not a ticket in wins a job, you’ll need to dedicate yourself and try to be at the very best of the courses to give yourself the best shot at a job. If you cruise through the course you’d likely to be cruising the prospect pool.

What is to be more worried about is the VET fee bill. I’m not 100% privy to how this one works so apologies if I am incorrect but having such a big bill over your head is really going to take the fun out of anything you do. It’s a new problem creeping in to the industry that is just not going to end well for many I feel.

But dedicate yourself and try your best and hopefully you are rewarded.

Exactly just have a look at what happens in Law and Engineering. All the big operators throw money at universities to keep the cost of getting a degree down to oversupply the labor market. Same would happen in Medicine if there was no intervention to limit supply.

However these days low time pilots are walking into turboprops. The airlines will then ensure the exemptions are all in place so they can be made Captain. That way the Airline has complete control over its labour supply. CASA has also helped out by locking up instrument ratings with your company and by making the ATPL Flight Test prohibitively expensive.

All these factors reduce competition in the pilot market and basically give Airlines a monopoly on pilot supply and thereby giving them control of their employees.

What do you think will happen to the QANTAS Academy now?

They still have 4 more courses locked in from July. I know a youngster going for an interview next month. Would be very interested to hear from anyone who is on course at the moment.