RFDS feeling effects of global pilot shortage
 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-...ogram/11494640

RFDS requires minimum 4000hrs TT, including 2000hrs as PIC.

How do their T&C (pay, roster, lifestyle) compare to that of the airlines?

No such thing as a pilot shortage...Just ask Airline IR the world over..

Damn.....I may have to come out of hibernation too. I think I will qualify...... except my age. Whitout googgleing what is their age limit?.

Er probably not.

Jeez these people are unreal....." an obligation to give back to the industry".... you must be joking. Where do they find these idiots? By the time someone has the required hours they have spent a fortune and years getting licences and ratings and most likely living in sh@%holes on subsistence rates, and they need to "give back". I'll bet the CEO of the RFDS is on 3 times a pilots salary and is tucked up in bed by 10pm

How long is it to a Brisbane base with them?

Allegedly: The people are not great, infighting. Factually: management very poor, major contractual vulnerability in 2020.

Well maybe you could come out of retirement along with sms777 and work for the RFDS, help them out, along with a few others who have had a career already and would just do it for fun. Yeah, the aircraft look nice enough but believe me after few years the novelty wears off, especially when the guy who puts the fuel in the wings earns more as a base pay not to mention his overtime. The paramedics in the ambulance probably 150% the pilots salary. So it's not so much the lure of the shiny jet, its about providing for a family and maybe for a comfortable retirement in the future, can't blame anyone for that.

For 50 years I have been hearing about aviation operators not being able to afford to pay a reasonable/liveable wage. Like everyone else I am a great supporter of the RFDS but they are just going to have to offer what it takes to attract and keep the right pilots for their services. GA might have changed but offer an attractive package and there would be any number of applicants. I would be interested in the RFDS costings and see who is earning what!

A couple of decades ago, there was in-fighting, poor and micro management, Pilot's expected to be charitable with their time, whilst managers paid at least twice as much as pilot's, for half the work and CEO's a lot more. Plus, as mentioned, in bed by 10pm and weekends off. :sad:
Doctors nurses, refuellers and just everyone else paid more. :sad:
I guess it's more important for the RFDS, and many other aviation companies, to have the axillary staff, as Pilots and Engineers are not really important for a flying operation*?! :mad:
It's hard to pay Pilots and Engineers more, as it's more important for the ones higher up to hit a bonus, than pay properly :ugh:
RFDS have a shortage of Pilot's, whom will accept sh!t conditions is my bet ;)
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Is it really that bad in relative terms? The pay seems to be inline with most regional captain pay if not better and you're not staring down the barrel of 5 sectors and a min rest over nights week in week out. And you're not baby sitting cadet FOs.

Literally every airline, even mainline receives a whole lot of negative sentiments on this website. Can someone please tell me which flying job in this country is the best kept secret?

Yes, regional captains pay is just as lousy.

It's not that bad, some just want it all which aviation doesn't cater for! Some seem to always 'compare', "he is getting more than me mentality"! It's not about comparing it is what it is, don't like it then you shouldn't have signed up!!!!!! I spent many years in AeroMed, was the best job, not the best paid but the best job, not everything is about money, we are so focused on the $$$ some lose sight of life itself! The Ruffdus like ALL Co's have their internal issues, what aviation Co doesn't?

Fair call. Curiously where do you draw the line of lousy / not lousy?

Thanks for a balancing input. I also dare say that people who are all about the money are far more likely to voice their complaints via this medium then the large group of pilots who just lurk and get on with the job.

[QUOTE=spektrum;10572685]Fair call. Curiously where do you draw the line of lousy / not lousy?


I would draw the line of lousy/not lousy based on earning enough that a pilot can afford to provide modestly for a family and maybe even save enough for a reasonable retirement. Despite all the comments that it is wrong to compare I can't help but mention that a Melbourne suburban train driver earns around the same as a RFDS / Regional Captain pilots fixed pay before his/her penalty rates kick in, possibly doubling his/her take home pay. The train driver does this with zero training costs or years of striving, simulator and medical renewal and job security for life.

AS a train driver I can endorse your philosophy. I gave up flying for a career 13 years ago and have never looked back. Suburban guys, particularly in Brisbane and Melbourne are quite well paid notwithstanding the roster.

Freight drivers - depending on company and depot - can earn well over $140K and if you go to one of the Pilbara operators you can take home north of $200K easily, particularly if you are employed as a residential driver there, though FIFO employees are on much less. I now work a 2 week on, 4 week off roster and gross around $110K but that was my choice to go part-time. On a 2 on, 2 off FIFO roster, that was around $165K give or take, though a good mate has just left for another company and is on $210K as a casual Driver.

We still have Cat1 medicals to comply with, though that is essentially the equivalent of an aviation Class 1, with a few things omitted, and I know of quite a few guys who have struggled to pass that with the more stringent criteria imposed recently, mostly stress testing or sleep related. To earn the sort of coin though, you are up at all hours, can have your shift changed at the drop of a hat +2 hours or -4 hours, many depots operate "blank line" or "pencil" rosters, where you know your RDO's and that is it. You don't find out what you're doing tomorrow until you sign off today, though the Suburban drivers have a fixed roster and can swap jobs/days with other volunteers to suit their own needs.

Knowing what I know now would I ever go back to flying as a career? RFDS, perhaps, but I don't have the experience to qualify, but beyond that, not a bloody chance... I fly for fun now, when I want, where I want and I don't have to deal with security going to work every shift...:mad:

I had a mate who did a short spell with the RFDS,

Basically maintenance is as good as it gets, they can't afford to have an aircraft break down when a call comes in so write it up and it's fixed no questions asked.
They really look after you and job security is excellent.
By GA standards pay is good however he did mention that the flight nurse earned more than he did.
Base was determined by supply and demand, apparently Charleville was popular and no one wanted to leave.
You are required to live within a certain distance/time to the airport.
Single pilot IFR, and could be quite demanding when trying to land on a bush strip during a stormy night.

It's a unique job, like flying in Antarctica or being a seaplane pilot in the Maldives.

I have a suspicion that the new generation of pilots starting out in Australia see being in GA for any longer than 2 years is a failure by the pilot.

Its all aboat getting multi crew turbo prop time as a leg up to the big jet.

Cobham Coastwatch
Rex
Sharp
Skippers
Jetstar
Virgin

If these companies could source all their pilots via pay for training, sorry "cadet scheme" they would.

RFDS is now stuck with trying to source pilots who used Govt funding to pay for their licence because they failed to get into one of the above schemes.

Pilotchute, I am also seeing and hearing of more GA companies who will select a self-funded pilot over a VETFEE funded pilot any day. As a broad generalisation, self-funded pilots are more likely to turn up on time, be prepared and have done some homework prior to the lesson / flight. VETFEE pilots are more likely to be at uni because Ma & Pa want them to do a degree, and becoming a pilot might help pickup chicks.

We are also seeing the first failure rate when GA pilots move from singles to twins (piston or turbine)...there are those who shouldn't be flying anything more complex than a 206, and there are those who shouldn't be flying...

On the regional airlines, we are starting to see the difference between cadets who are trained to operate an aircraft within a particular set of paremeters, and those ex-GA jockeys who can fly an aircraft. Both are now appearing in the captains seat, and the difference is obvious.

The RFDS situation is just the tip of the iceberg.

Sorry to labour the point but Krismillers mate only worked for the RFDS for a short time, why, could it be he/she couldn't get a sustainable wage? He goes on to mention "By GA standards the pay is good" The truth is that GA pay standards are appalling. The reasons for this are unchanged over 50 years that I know of, pilots working for below salary, flying unserviceable aircraft overweight and out of hours etc just to get the hours to get to the high paying gig in an airline, then sneering at GA as crap. Shonky operators cutting corners, tendering below par to get a contract and then putting the screws on pilots to make it work for them. And so we come to this now that the RFDS is claiming it's a global shortage of pilots that is responsible for their predicament, what garbage.
Make no mistake, the RFDS is not that cosy fuzzy Mother Theresa like benevolent organisation it makes out, it's a business, as ruthless and cutthroat as any other in this industry and a long way from the Rev. Flynn's idea of a community service.
And for a few obviously retired ex airline pilots to suggest that RFDS or GA pilots should just suck it up because they "want it all" and have lost sight of what life is all about or the CEO to suggest the "pilots give back to the sector" is the height of hypocrisy.

A look at the post from KRviator will give you an idea what is happening in the real world, he has to be the smartest guy to visit PPrune. We all know why his industry can afford to pay what they do, no shonky operators undercutting and no sycophantic drivers prepared to work for less. Costs passed onto the consumer, easy

Deja Vu is spot on...after decades in the rfds, it has become a corporate entity and a long way from when I started....Management are their for one reason,,,themselves!

More than likely they applied and never got a job with them, and because they didn't hire 'gods gift to aviation' then clearly they are a bad place.

They don't give a **** about their current pilots and and have no qualms about breaching the EBA when it suits them, so why would the current Pilots want to stay!!

I'm not sure if this post is just an appalling use of English or is the new virtue signalling around the use of the latest Woke gender pronouns, they and them.

In any case for your ease of understanding and to avoid offending any very sensitive woke souls, God's gift to aviation ( herein after to be known as "they" ) never did apply to the RFDS ( herein after to be known as "them"), When "they" was seeking employment in the general aviation field, "them" only operated in remote areas and "they" chose to accept work with another city based Aeromed operator for many years and thereafter enjoyed an amazing career through to retirement in heavier than air vehicles of a more significant size and speed. So "them" were never offered or enjoyed the benefit of "they"'s God given gift.

Clearly "them" or "they" are not "a bad place", or even a good place for that matter. A place has co-ordinates, you know a whole lot of numbers in groups with a letter in front. In fact "them" is an organisation, not a place. "They" has no opinion on wether "them" is a good or bad organisation but "they" believes that "them" do not currently offer good long term career prospects for people like "they", gifted or not.

Exactly!!

They get paid more because they are worth more, the pilots role on board is probably the least complex and least demanding of all three roles along with the fact the only role which has sensible (??) duty time restrictions.

What is 'worth' anyway? Who decides what someone is worth? Purely as an observation, the pilot on these flights is responsible for all lives onboard not just the patient. Duty time restrictions don't mean anything when you are single pilot IFR going into/out of an outback strip at 4am in crap weather. How ironic that an employer demands high levels of experience with a certain level of pay but then when it suits them i.e. supply drops, they simple reduce the hours requirement. New joiners are magically 'worth' more!