PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions-91/)
-   -   Qantas pilot academy - latest rejection (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/623137-qantas-pilot-academy-latest-rejection.html)

TempoTCu 2nd Jul 2019 23:52

Qantas pilot academy - latest rejection
 
I received the "thanks but no thanks" email from the first round of applicants to the Qantas pilot academy last week. Of course I am disappointed but I'm really seeking some advice to learn from this. I am becoming miffed as to why I continue to be rejected at the first round of cuts for all cadetship/academy applications.

I applied for the 2017 Virgin cadetship at 0 hours flight time and was rejected at first round.
I applied for the 2018 Virgin cadetship at 30 hours flight time and was rejected first round.
I applied for the 2019 Qantas pilot academy at 60 hours flight time and was rejected first round.

The only other details both organisations have about me are that I am in my late 30s with two university degrees and am male. I have expressed a very strong desire to change careers and finally engage in the career I've always wanted to do rather than the career that everyone else has expected me to do. There is literally no other job I can possibly see myself doing that I would enjoy, and be fully engaged in, other than career pilot.

There is no other pertinent data about me that I have provided to either organisation. Can anyone provide some advice on what the airlines are looking for? I cant seem to work it out. TIA.

aroa 3rd Jul 2019 00:34

These's a lot more flying satisfaction and fun out there, other than just the biggies.

27/09 3rd Jul 2019 00:58

Why are you so fixated on going down the "Academy" route?

It would seem you have been able to independently finance your training up till now. Why not continue down that path?

Jenna Talia 3rd Jul 2019 01:38


Originally Posted by TempoTCu (Post 10508226)
and am male

You've answered your own question.

BuzzBox 3rd Jul 2019 01:47

TempoTCu:

I suspect the airlines are looking for cadets aged around 18-25, so your age probably doesn't help your case. There's also a push for more female cadets; Qantas and Virgin have announced they are aiming for a 50-50 gender split in their cadet recruitment. Virgin exceeded that with their 2018 intake, where 9 out of 16 recruits were female. My guess is they've had far more applications than there are places available and that applicants who don't fit the right 'demographic' are automatically rejected.

Squawk7700 3rd Jul 2019 02:01


60 hours in your late 30’s doesn’t sound like you “really want it.” It the same when joining the defence force. They want you to come to them on the brink of bankruptcy having worked 3 jobs at the same time so scrimp and save every spare dollar for flying lessons.

Your story sounds more like you got a degree or two, didn’t like it and then just moved on. What’s stopping you starting and have them spending a lot of cash on you and you just change your mind and move on?

Try getting a job at that age with Airservices as an ATC too... you won’t be able to, unless you meet very specific requirements around eduction which which are not made to look age related.

mcoates 3rd Jul 2019 03:05

Why not contact them regarding your rejection letter and explain yourself exactly as you have done on the first post and ask them the reasons why. At least this way you can stop guessing and stop feeling inadequate, if you have the real reasons you can then make some more accurate decisions. I don't think they would be against telling you why you were rejected especially if you put your questions like you have in your first post. Good luck

machtuk 3rd Jul 2019 03:17

I do feel for you but to be frank yr age would be the biggest stumbling block for the cadetships. Late 30's say 38 for Eg means you are well behind the 8 ball there sadly:-( I started late commercially (30 yrs old) & back then I was considered way too old but I persevered and changed trains ending up fly with the Airlines anyway, just went about it differently:-)
As much as you must be disillusioned plenty before you have ridden the same sad train but that doesn't mean your train journey need come to an abrupt end, change trains & ride it to another proposed destination:-)
Good luck, there's only one thing you need to succeed (other than LOTS of cash) is determination, that's free!:-)

TempoTCu 3rd Jul 2019 03:22

So the underlying suggestion is age and gender are preventing me from progressing. The very two things that are supposed to be "protected" under Australian employment law. I am reluctant to accept that. If there are any airline HR people lurking here please feel free to comment. mcoates , I have tried contacting VF and Cobham (to who I also applied to their cadetship) previously and could not find someone who would respond meaningfully to my enquiry.

For the record, I have self funded my training to date (which I only started 18 months ago) by working two jobs whilst funding a mortgage, a marriage, and raising children - so I know a thing or two about "scrimping and saving" and I think my situation adequately demonstrates my intention and commitment to this new career if I were at least given an opportunity to express this to any recruiter.

I am not seeking training in a cadetship or academy exclusively, its just that I know how competitive the industry is so I want to apply for everything, and if I get anything I'll be thrilled. I am continuing to self fund and fly part time and slowly hour build. It is not ideal but it is the the only way I can progress in my current fiscal situation. I am thoroughly enjoying every second in the cockpit so if I could accelerate my training I would. I am not pinning all my hopes and dreams on being a flagship airline pilot. I would be equally as thrilled with any pilot job in a full time capacity that meets my current cost of living. Thanks for all the comments, I'll never give up I am just using every means possible to obtain as much information and feedback as possible to make me the best I can be.

Squawk7700 3rd Jul 2019 03:31

For age discrimination complaints you would contact the Human Rights Commission. They have no powers though, as they can only mediate and run a conciliation session, even if it is blatantly obvious that age discrimination is taking place. If the employer says get lost, there is nothing further they can do and the employer is not obliged to even respond.

Then you have to find your own lawyer and request a hearing at your local courthouse. If you lose, you run the risk of costs being awarded against you, not to mention your own costs.

Law firms do not to “no win, no fee” pro bono for human rights cases, so you’re on your own with the costs.

In summary, don’t try and go down that path as you won’t get anywhere !

ersa 3rd Jul 2019 03:40

Your age 100% they want early 20’s

Malakor1 3rd Jul 2019 03:43


Originally Posted by Squawk7700 (Post 10508274)

60 hours in your late 30’s doesn’t sound like you “really want it.” It the same when joining the defence force. They want you to come to them on the brink of bankruptcy having worked 3 jobs at the same time"

I disagree with that, it's not been my experience that this is the case, especially with the ADF. If anything the ADF would prefer minimal to modest hours so they can mould you into shape.

I think to go down the line of age discrimination is quite severe. To not be offered a position does not automatically mean they're discriminating against you, that implies hands down you are the ultimate candidate? Maybe you're not presenting as well as you think?

Either way, I applied for a cadetship years ago for REX, and I thought I was a shoe in, didn't get it in the end and it was the best that that never happened to me!




B2N2 3rd Jul 2019 03:57

Age discrimination?
What about being 59 and having 60 hrs and applying?
Is that different?
Stop digging a hole for yourself running in circles.
You’re a teen trying to enroll in kindergarten.
Being an adult and having financial responsibilities and dependents.
If they accept you and you quit your job and tank training then what?
Employers are well within their rights to select as they see fit.

Those who pay, choose

TimmyTee 3rd Jul 2019 04:12

Age:
Gender:

you answered incorrectly unfortunately.

BuzzBox 3rd Jul 2019 04:21


Originally Posted by TempoTCu (Post 10508292)
So the underlying suggestion is age and gender are preventing me from progressing. The very two things that are supposed to be "protected" under Australian employment law. I am reluctant to accept that. If there are any airline HR people lurking here please feel free to comment. mcoates , I have tried contacting VF and Cobham (to who I also applied to their cadetship) previously and could not find someone who would respond meaningfully to my enquiry.

Age and gender related discrimination might be 'protected' under Australian law, but it still occurs in workplaces all over Australia. It goes without saying that no prospective employer would ever admit to such practices. If you believe you have a case, then you have every right to make a complaint to the Australian Human Rights Commission:
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-w...imination-2012



Dunda 3rd Jul 2019 04:22

It’s up to you how you view this situation. You could play the victim which seems to be trendy these days. You didn’t get the job because of age discrimination or maybe it was reverse discrimination because you are male. To play this game, I’d suggest putting on your next application that you identify as female or inter-sex ie. today you are male, tomorrow you are female. I’ve heard of guys in the US actually using this vehicle to gain employment with the majors. Why not jump on the gender politics band wagon?

Or take responsibility. Maybe there are aspects of your technical and personal make up that you could work on. I’d take the plunge and get into the game today. Stop waiting for the next Cadetship and stop sitting on the sidelines. If you really do want to become a pilot, just find a flying school and get on with it. You’ll technically become a pilot, but also you’ll start meeting pilots who’ve been successful in the industry and they’ll be able to point you in the right direction both professionally and personally.

Squawk7700 3rd Jul 2019 04:23


Originally Posted by BuzzBox (Post 10508316)
Age and gender related discrimination might be 'protected' under Australian law, but it still occurs in workplaces all over Australia. It goes without saying that no prospective employer would ever admit to such practices. If you believe you have a case, then you have every right to make a complaint to the Australian Human Rights Commission:
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-w...imination-2012

See my post above.

The HRC have zero rights to take any action.

They will however, agree to facilitate a conciliation on the matter, only if the HRC commissioner believes that the employer is stretching the laws. Once
the employer fails to reply then it all ends.

The only compelling reason I can see for the employer to respond in any way, is to defend themselves early on so that when (if) it does to go a court, then they will have been seen to be attempting to participate and this try to defend any bad press if they lose.


BuzzBox 3rd Jul 2019 04:53


Originally Posted by Squawk7700 (Post 10508319)


See my post above.

The HRC have zero rights to take any action.

They will however, agree to facilitate a conciliation on the matter, only if the HRC commissioner believes that the employer is stretching the laws. Once
the employer fails to reply then it all ends.

The only compelling reason I can see for the employer to respond in any way, is to defend themselves early on so that when (if) it does to go a court, then they will have been seen to be attempting to participate and this try to defend any bad press if they lose.



I said "If you believe you have a case, then you have every right to make a complaint". I did NOT say that it would achieve anything!

TempoTCu 3rd Jul 2019 05:38

I just want to be clear that I am not suggesting that I have been discriminated against - I'm just seeking feedback on what I can do (if anything) to overcome the constant rejections. This isn't about finding or making excuses, its about tapping into every resource available to learn and improve. Thanks.

crosscutter 3rd Jul 2019 05:48

I have to agree with the others who have said "just get on with it". Although cadetships have been around a while, cadets make up a minority of pilots in all airlines. It will not define your training or your success.

It's not easy to get a cadetship.

Have a look at the Qantas Recruitment thread. Look at the mind numbing number of views. There is lots of interest, lots of competition. Pilots from around the world from aeroclubs, the military and airlines are fighting for spots not just in Qantas but the other airlines too.

Be aware that you're up against people who have no other responsibilities, eat sleep and breathe aviation and totally submerge themselves in the industry. Flying is a passion that burns in some people and this helps this irrational devotion. So how much do you want it? A cadetship is no easy path, it guarantees nothing. So if you want it...if it burns in you...then get into flying. Otherwise, enjoy your PPL with friends and family.

Most of your readers have sacrificed their time, money and lives to be professional pilots. They have failed, picked themselves up, swept hangers, worked in 50 degree cockpits, had friends killed. Not getting into a cadetship is a first world problem that holds no relevance or significant disappointment. It will not define your flying and it certainly doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you.


All times are GMT. The time now is 19:23.


Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.