Good question. I know that Angel Flight (AF) made sub #71 to the Senate committee (ctte) to prove CASA lied about their safety case (as shown in the snips). AF were interviewed by the Senators. I presume AF won their court case against CASA.

So if by "stopped fighting CASA in court" you mean "AF won" and went back to business as usual, then I would agree with you.

Do you have an alternative version of the story? I am only going off what I have read so far in the Senate ctte submissions page.

You presume wrongly. AF didn’t win their court case against CASA (or, more accurately, their challenge to the validity of the CSF instrument).

It’s about the safety of air navigation. And whatever someone in CASA wakes up each day and decides is in the interests of the safety of air navigation, is in the interests of the safety of air navigation.

Thanks LB, I shall need to read the CSF case in full! :8 Nothing appears on AustLII so it does not appear to have gone ahead, as you wrote.

CASA may draft the laws but the courts shall decide how they are applied.

AF showed that CASA did not rely on any valid safety case when drafting the CSF instrument. I suppose the next step is for the Senate to decide whether to keep the CSF rules in place.

PS. Taken from the Angel Flight sub #71.

Now I get it: You’re a comedian!Champagne comedy!

Of course the case didn’t go ahead. Angel Flight’s submission to the Senate Committee refers to a Federal Court decision that didn’t happen. The Federal Court is in on the joke, too, by publishing a fake judgment cited as Angel Flight Australia v Civil Aviation Safety Authority [2021] FCA 469.
Where have I heard that before? Of course: It was in a post just before yours:And then the punch line:Thanks for the belly laugh!

I have to hand it to you: You got me a beauty!

When and where’s your court appearance? I’m coming! It’ll be a laugh a minute.

Thanks for the link to the AF + CASA FCA judgement. I have extracted some quotes above from the FCA judgement, and the Angel Flight Sub #71 Attachment 1.

I can see what you mean now, CASA can speculate that A leads to B - and apparently there is no requirement for science or data to back it up.

I do not wish to repeat my information in Glen's thread, since it is already listed in my thread at the post here.

By the way I think Glen's case is quite different to Angel Flight (AF). With AF they dragged CASA to court to ask if the new CSF instrument was fair. With Glen's case, it was CASA who took actions against him, with CASA claiming they "did not know about" the arrangements proposed. Glen's letter to the Minister outlined this, by my understanding.

Dear Glen, If you need more funding, you can be sure I will be there.

But Mate, I can never use the Gofundme platform ever again. Can you consider another if needed?

Hope you are well. As for your family, I hope they love you more for your stand.

Regards Bendy.

Bendy
 

Good to have you on the journey after 3 years. Whilst i dont anticipate anymore crowd funding at this stage, Im interested on your views on GoFundMe. My own personal experience with them was very good, have you got some feedback. Cheers. Glen

No response from the Office of Barnaby Joyce
 

In Post 1912, i sent correspondence to the Office of Barnaby Joyce. It remained not acknowledged or responded to. That correspondence was sent on 01/02/22.

I sent follow up correspondence on 07/02/22 and again that was not acknowledged or responded to.

I have resent that correspondence again this morning.

Failing a response to that, my intention is to seek the assistance of Ms Gladys Liu, the member for Chisholm (my local electorate and Australia's most marginal seat), as well as Ms Helen Haines the Independent for the Victorian Seat of Indi and an advocate for an anti corruption body.

Cheers. Glen

Try registered post. Has to be signed to confirm delivery. I know it is last centruies technoogy but it does give you a confirmed delivery.

Non acknowledgement of mail
 

Poor office management, an acknowledgment should be given to every serious item of correspondence.
Parcel post also a method which provides tracking information.
I hope Glen’s MP Gladys Liu takes up his case.

Perhaps Glen should ‘text’ Mr Joyce. We all know that Tomato Head likes to send and receive text messages.

Correspondence to Gladys Liu from Sandy Reith
 

Thankyou Sandy for taking the time to send the following correspondence to my local Member of Parliament, Gladys Liu, Noting coincidentally that my electorate is the most marginal in Australia, and an electorate that i have resided in my entire life. My matter is one that clearly suggests a need for a body to investigate corruption in Government, something that the Liberals seem keen to avoid.

Perhaps i could reach out to Angel Flight, AOPA and affected industry participants and request an industry meeting with Ms. Gladys Lius office. I will put some thought into it. In the interim here is the letter to Gladys Liu. Thankyou again Sandy, and by the way I did meet you just once. About 25 years ago, at Philip Island one night when i came into pay a landing fee at Philip Island. It was one of my very first instructional flights as a Grade Three Instructor.

Dear Ms Liu,



I believe you have an opportunity to gain popularity by supporting the General Aviation (GA) community and assist government to reverse the bureaucratic strangling of of what should be a vibrant and growing GA industry.



You might be surprised at the numbers of people and their families and friends who have come across the very bad reputation of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) within the GA community including GA businesses and employees.



CASA is now a 34 year old independent monopoly inventor of ever more numerous permissions to which are attached swingeing fees. Its ever increasing and changing mountain of rules, inappropriately migrated to the criminal code, are so numerous that there are numbers of them that are contradictory and solid interpretations are impossible.



I’m making an appeal to you to give stronger and public support to your constituent Glen Buckley on the basis that his case is an example of CASA’s completely unjustifiable bureaucratic overkill, quite apart from the wrecking of Glen’s aviation businesses.



I have never met Glen and he has not asked for my support or intervention.



Because I am Peter Reith’s brother, have been involved in politics since the 1960s, plus having made a career out of General Aviation, I am uniquely placed to see the benefits to be gained by you and the Liberal Party by being vocal on this issue.



Barnaby Joyce has recently issued a new Statement of Expectations (not Directions), to the Board of CASA. Here is the basic problem, in this statement the Minister claims, rightly, that he and Parliament are responsible but that CASA is independent.



This is a straight up contradiction and the results are manifest across the 34 years of CASA’s operations. The losses of hundreds of flying schools, charter operators and maintenance facilities throughout Australia for no good reason.



This illustrates that you can’t have the Westminster system debased by hiving off responsibility to an unelected body and expecting the best governance with efficiency and low costs to business.



Should you take up this opportunity and declare for aviation to be governed through a regular Department of Government, and support Glen Buckley, you will gain much kudos. Glen being the underdog fighting an implacable Canberra bureaucracy, you will win much respect in your electorate, and right around Australia for the Liberal Party.



Sometimes you must take a stand to win, if I can help any further please be in touch, for example I can refer you to a number of respected GA people who will give you confidence to pursue this issue.



Kind Regards,



Sandy Reith

Corruption.
 

Like many words that describe the worst failings of us humans ‘corruption’ has many shades. In Glen’s case he has obvious reasons to make claim.

How to combat corruption in government is a vexed question but firstly I think it rational to go back to first principles and that is that our elected representatives must be accountable and responsible. We must expect this and foster this concept by, say, joining a political party, making frequent representations to our various MPs and helping to create that kind of political interest that is lacking in day to day life.

Henry Bolte was one of Victoria’s longest serving and most successful Premiers. I was at a meeting where the concept of an Ombudsman was presented and enthusiastically promoted. I thought what a great idea. Henry Bolte said this is a bad idea because this will cut across the work of MPs.

Now I see clearly he was right.

Yet another independent body or Commissioner to swell the bloated ranks of the Public Sector (was once Public Service) will not enhance the behaviour of government. We should pay our MPs more and fund their offices for extra duties that we should expect.

Question Time in Parliament should be returned to its true meaning and importance instead of its current party political theatre.

The courts should be more available, accessible and at lower cost. The police could be better organised.

We can’t do better than try to improve our democracy and that does not mean handing off functions to unelected people, see CASA. In my not so humble opinion.

Re above post from SR. I suppose (regrettably for my stress levels) my contribution will be showing in Katoomba local court that CASA do not understand high school physics. Submission #72 to the current Senate ctte refers.

PS. GB try sending in hard copy with words "PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL" - this stops any staff opening the letter - you might be surprised. In my case, I called to confirm the email address, emailed it, then another call to ensure my email arrived. They got the message and emailed me back an acknowledgement.

Why not start a signed petition?

Someone has already started a petition for a Royal Commission into CASA. Is that what you mean?

Do you mean yourself? If so, no one will take it seriously.

Petition?
 

I had one back in 2016 that elicited 3000 signatures and some hundreds of comments, many of which have very detailed accounts of mistreatment and unnecessary bureaucratic intransigence etc.

We’ve had umpteen inquiries, what we need now is a very loud crying out, media if possible, for a Department of Aviation with a Minister in charge.
Support AOPA and ring write contact media and your MPs.

ASRR Submission #107 by Pro Aviation (Phelan, 2014) says it all.

And it would seem that CASA has only gotten worse... :ugh:

PS. ASRR Submission #192 is probably the best one-pager summary I have seen from both the current Senate review (2020-2022+) and the older ASRR review (2014) aka Forsyth review. I happened to only just read it now.

Susan's pissed....