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-   -   Firefighting Aircraft accident Jericho, Victoria (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/617733-firefighting-aircraft-accident-jericho-victoria.html)

Seagull V 29th Jan 2019 04:46

The ATSB report gives the position of the accident site as 37°41'24.0"S 146°09'00.0"EOn Google Earth this is a hillside, but less than a kilometre to the South West there is a tiny little reservoir.
Skycrane crews really earn their pay.
Seagull V

John Eacott 29th Jan 2019 05:38


Originally Posted by Seagull V (Post 10374072)
Skycrane crews really earn their pay.
Seagull V

Granted, but so do ALL Helitack crews :ok:

Pedant mode on, they’re Aircranes not Skycranes ;)

Edit to add that the photos appear to show a broken TRDS up from the 45 box.

ACMS 29th Jan 2019 07:52

So if we start tasting Jet A1 in the Melb water soon we’ll know why!!

Squawk7700 29th Jan 2019 07:56

I love the smell of Jet-A so much, I shower in it.


onehitwonder 29th Jan 2019 08:21

How do you remove a 20T machine from a lake that you can’t get machinery into....no crane or barge

cant lift it out, army said to much liability should something go wrong

supposedly draining the lake and then establish next move from there

Squawk7700 29th Jan 2019 08:46


It was suggested on one of the news outlets that they would split it into three and airlift it out.


industry insider 29th Jan 2019 09:20

Still a lump but Empty Weight on the Crane is normally around 9t. With a lifting capacity of 9t - 12t depending on variant and assuming all the water is out of the cockpit / fuel and its not snagged, it should be possible to sling it out with another Aircrane.

Bend alot 29th Jan 2019 10:44


Originally Posted by industry insider (Post 10374238)
Still a lump but Empty Weight on the Crane is normally around 9t. With a lifting capacity of 9t - 12t depending on variant and assuming all the water is out of the cockpit / fuel and its not snagged, it should be possible to sling it out with another Aircrane.

99.9976854% is submerged in water so both cockpit and most the fuel tanks will be full of water and possibly in a mud or rock deposit - I doubt another Aircrane can do a recovery with it in one piece. If water tank, fuel and cockpit are full you are looking more like 25T at a guess.

Ex FSO GRIFFO 29th Jan 2019 10:45

Would this be 'relevant'..?
CASA Briefing newsletter 29 Jan 2019.....

Night aerial fire-fighting makes history

History was made in early 2019 with the first night aerial firefighting operations used to combat an out-of-control bushfire in Victoria. The Rosedale blaze in East Gippsland burnt through 12,000 hectares in less than four days in a fast-moving fire front. A total of 60 water drops were made at night on the fire, using helicopters equipped with a snorkel system that collects water from nearby dams and lakes. Aircraft crews also used night vision goggles to map out the fire, helping to provide detailed information to firefighting crews on the ground. CASA has given approval for night firefighting trials by Emergency Management Victoria, allowing aircraft to fight blazes for up to four hours after dark if they have been fighting the same fire during daylight hours. There are now two certified night fire-fighting operators, Kestrel Aviation in Mangalore and Coulson Aviation in Ballarat. Emergency Management Commissioner, Andrew Crisp, said the helicopters were deployed as part of the continuing trial into night fire suppression operations in Victoria. Mr Crisp said the Rosedale fire was a good example of a fire that could benefit from night operations and indications were that the operation went well, with further opportunities to learn.

I dunno…Just a thought…..

Cheers

industry insider 29th Jan 2019 11:50

Bend alot wrote:


If water tank, fuel and cockpit are full you are looking more like 25T at a guess.
Ah yes, I didn't think about the water tank still being there, you are right, its going to need some disassembly.

John Eacott 29th Jan 2019 17:04


Originally Posted by Ex FSO GRIFFO (Post 10374305)
Would this be 'relevant?

snip

I dunno…Just a thought…..

Cheers

No, not at all relevant. The Cranes aren’t part of the night ops team, plus it was daytime when they ditched.

Captain Sherm 29th Jan 2019 19:46

Sunfish.

Many older aircraft have been lost on firebombing activities with metal fatigue later being found as the cause. The names Electra and C-130 come to mind.

Just exactly what do you think the role of regulators/investigators is after an accident where there's a possibility of a systemic fault that just might affect other aircraft? Do nothing? It only took a little while for the all-clear to be given for the helicopter fleet of similar aircraft to fly. A small and prudent precaution I would have thought.

Bash CASA and ATSB when they deserve it by all means but please leave things like post-accident precautions to the professionals.

Wunwing 30th Jan 2019 00:41

Sunny.
So the 2013 Ulladulla Dromader accident should not have resulted in grounding of other similar aircraft?
Wunwing

Alpha Whiskey Bravo 30th Jan 2019 03:59

Get it upright, fill it full of gas and I'll fly it out! If I can start it, I can fly it, is my motto. :ok:

Old Akro 30th Jan 2019 05:48

What authority does CASA have to ground a US manufactured aircraft that does not have Australian type certification is US registered being flown by US pilots??

John Eacott 30th Jan 2019 05:54


Originally Posted by Old Akro (Post 10375105)
What authority does CASA have to ground a US manufactured aircraft that does not have Australian type certification is US registered being flown by US pilots??

Seriously? The (very) short grounding was by the contract holders to ensure safety compliance for all firefighters. Nothing to do with CASA.

The original photo showing the damaged tail rotor drive shaft should be a key indication of the circumstances of the accident.

Sunfish 30th Jan 2019 06:28

My observation re grounding was that i hoped it was a prudent technical decision and not bureaucratic OH&S arse covering of the type public servants are famous for. I stand by that observation. In any case, It appears that it was the former.

Old Akro 31st Jan 2019 04:38


Seriously? The (very) short grounding was by the contract holders to ensure safety compliance for all firefighters. Nothing to do with CASA.
John, that is what I expected and frankly, I think is a reasonable response. But what I saw reported was that it was CASA's decision, which I didn't understand. I can't see that CASA has much to do with these operations and frankly, I wonder about the ATSB too. The ATSB is certainly not going to have any of the required expertise.


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