= coal fired cars.

SQ7700,
No, of course I k now nothing about that, or anything else, for that matter, in your view.

Why don't you grow up, and read what is written, in the spirit it is written, rather than looking fro something, with which to disagree. A hopefully one-off problem with the Tasmania to the big island inter connector did not invalidate the premise of the study --- which showed that, for a long time in the future, the source of power for overnight charging of electric car batteries will be from coal, so only shifting the "pollution" somewhere else, compared to petrol/diesel vehicles.

My original post was about the real cost of some "green" technology --- and how inconvenient facts are often omitted ---- it is known as "proponent bias".

As to Prius batteries, two close friends have both had problems with the battery pack, their dealer has said that their "problems" are not "problems", and seem as much age related as distance traveled, about five years. In each case the common usage has been short distance commuting, not country travel, so the batteries get worked. Neither is a proponent of "global warming" caused by "CO2 pollution", that is not why they bought the cars, they bought them in expectation of very low costs per km. for a daily commute. They have been disappointed.

I gather that a number of taxi operators in Sydney have had similar experiences.

So, does a Tesla add to or subtract from transport's contribution to "global warming".

Tootle pip!!

PS: Most of those diesel generators, and many more, are now in SA, the "green" state.

How long would the batteries last on a Prius or Tesla if every journey they made, both long and short, was at near max continuous power? Not long at all.

I'm not sure if a drone can do translational lift, especially the ducted fan variety. On the other hand, a teleporter can do translational lift quite well.
Then there's the dreaded vortex-ring-state - the nerds designing this thing should be very afraid of VRS and any attributions made by forum posters.

I'm sure the nerds designing these things are fully aware of all the issues raised by random internet users...

Yeah, right Andy. I'll believe it when one of the nerds is happy to wave "Bon Voyage" to his family on the short hop to the airport in the sparkly new Uber unmanned electric drone.

I think the nerds designing these things most likely think they are designing an up scaled toy drone. I rather suspect they are not familiar with FAR 23 nor the finer points of operations into and out of confined spaces and or high aviation traffic areas.

I think they know a f%$&-load more than the nay-sayers on this thread about designing aircraft and VTOLs and FAR23 and all that stuff and more. Not only that, they know enough about finding the financial backing to do something which is the stumbling block here in Australia before CASA ever is!

Folks,
For something really interesting, look up BlackFly, by Opener Inc., on YouTube.
And it is real, not a bunch of gunnah's.
VTOL for the novice.
With the pace of modern development, never say never.
Tootle pip!!

PS: 601 ---- Coal fired cars ---- love it, and correct for the foreseeable future in AU.

Yeah Blackfly, more like Blowfly, ridiculous hover attitude, rounded bottom (no landing gear) single seat, and each prop makes an amazing amount of noise.

"Never be a success in Oz".

Well, Andy turns out I've had interesting discussions with people such as engineers at Ausnet and others who are VERY sceptical about the current infatuation with lithium batteries. They are a mature technology and are about at their theoretical limits already. Large scale batteries for dispatchable power are especially problematic. Huge cost for tiny amounts of energy. Look up the specs. for Musks battery in S.A. A joke.
Oh, and best not to make too many assumptions about the people you are talking to. Some of us have qualifications outside aviation. Sometimes "nay-saying" is just a touch of realism. Why dont you put your money where your mouth is and stump up some cash for one of these miraculous endeavours and see how you go?

A Charlie,
Of course, I understand completely, what you saw was the one, the only, without any prospect of development, change, improvement, etc.
Let's face it, the Wright Flyer was just an impractical toy, clearly as a starting point for something called "aviation" it was a dead end with no future.
"A Charlie" --- how appropriate.
Tootle pip!!

PS: If I had the spare change, I would buy a BlackFly V3 just for the shear fun of it.

I am putting my own money into my own (possibly) miraculous endeavour. I'll see how I go. Unlike some commenters, I am also following what's happening with a spreadsheet of calcs to guestimate what people are doing in terms of range, payload, hover power, etc because it helps in my quest to establish the envelope of the possible. From my work, I don't think you need huge batteries to be useful - certainly a fraction of what a Telsa is carrying about. I think 40kWh tops for something that is useful. Obviously not for the Über model of carting five people about but as a single-seater for useful short cross-country work.

Just in case you think that Li-ion battery technology isn't going anywhere, have a look at this: (I don't think you need any translation from the Czech to figure out what he's on about


https://www.he3da.com/

In the motor vehicle industry we are now getting traditional V8 power out of small 4-pot internal combustion engines, and all it took was some tightening of the emission regs. There is a lot of energy stored in liquid based fuels, and the technology to convert every last Joule from that fuel into useful power is expanding rapidly. I'm sure similar efficiencies can be had with turbine engines. It's just a matter of where you apply the best talent to the most realistic outcomes. If you set them playing with toys then that's all they'll ever produce.

There's definitely more to be had in ICEs especially combined with hybrid transmission systems however the perpetual issue is that even expensive fuel is very cheap compared to the capital cost of trying to save it. Currently ICEs are being asked to span too large an envelope to be really as efficient as they could be. Also the current trend in highly boosted engines is less Otto cycle and more combined cycle where multi-stage compressio and expansion is used to improve overall cycle efficiency in the same manner as gas turbines do.

Electric and hybrid-electric aircraft are not really about being green as much as they are about opening up new design opportunities, particularly in the VTOL space. This comes largely from the ability to precisely control motor power electronically as well as the chance to have high power density motors in aerodynamically convenient places. This is new territory though and no one really knows what an optimal configuration actually looks like yet so you're going to see some weird contraptions proposed until we learn enough to know where the advantages lie. All of the electric motor technology is already highly developed and more-or-less on the shelf waiting to be adopted

As far as batteries go, sure there are likely gains to be had out there in the future but useful things can be done with current technology as Tesla has demonstrated in the automotive sector. Whether you like the results or not is irrelevant. The product is as compelling as a phat S-class Benz ever was and as justifiable. Forget the green tripe and look at it purely as a luxury car buying option.

Like any design problem there is no one solution and its all about pushing the compromises around until you get something that works well (or not). Over time designs will converge on perhaps one or two configurations and the real effort becomes fine-tuning the details

...says he who bent his unducted non-VTOL contraption trying to get it on the ground

Jesus might help you in your hour of need though, Sunny...

Folks,
An interesting thought --- a version powered by a battery+a motor/generator hydrogen powered, with the hydrogen source based on the recent UNSW patents for converting liquid ammonia back to hydrogen.
Never say never.
Tootle pip!!

...and the hydrogen could be carried in a giant balloon, which will help keep it in the sky when the batteries fail...

Folks,
What "A Charlie".
The whole thrust of the ammonia/hydrogen development recently patented is an efficient method of producing hydrogen from ammonia (which was produced from hydrogen in the first place)--- or, put another way, using this practical conversion method means the "fuel" is ammonia handled as a liquid.
And as for those of you who have all the answers of why "it" won't work, are you aware that acknowledged technological failures like Mercedes and BMW already (and have for some time) produce their vehicles adapted to hydrogen --- and the delivery points for hydrogen in Germany are multiplying rapidly.
But--- the UNSW patent gets around all the problems of handling liquid hydrogen, and you have a reasonably harmless liquid at normal temperatures fuel --- ammonia.
And, I suppose you all understand that Australia is set to become a big exporter of liquid hydrogen. Or the Japanese and Korean are really dumb signing such big forward supply contracts for hydrogen.
Tootle pip!!

PS: A Charlie, do you have to work at your posts, or does it all come naturally??

DeadSled: There is such a thing called humour, though you appear to lack that gene. Toodle-oo! Pip! Pip!

Yeh come on leaddie enough of the hydrogen balloons already. They went up in smoke years ago. :}

In addition to it not being harmless as pointed out by Sunfish, neither is it liquid at normal temperatures, unless you consider -33 to be normal. That's a lot of fiction packed into a very few words. I admire your efficiency.

Well, it is toxic, corrosive, and flammable. Other than that it's pretty benign.

https://h2.live/en

https://www.tuev-sued.de/company/pre...ldwide-in-2017

German fuel stations for Hydrogen. Thanks I learnt something. As well as being entertained.

Still not as impressive as the CEPS fuel pipeline...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centra...ipeline_System

It's all good & well pointing us all in the direction of a future that's possible but we all do live in Australia, a land of inept leaders Inc our aviation authority & corruption that takes us nowhere other than dreams & wishes & I haven't yet met a dream or a wish that gets me off the ground!:-) Dream n Australia, we will only ever follow not lead!

Quite so, but by the same standards petrol is not entirely benign, either, nor LPG (also stored under pressure)
For all the knockers, why not spend a few minutes looking at the U.of NSW public data on the subject, particularly the process for turning the ammonia (in whatever liquid form it might be) back to usable hydrogen and completely non-noxious "other".
Then use your imagination to see how existing distribution and delivery systems could be adapted, rather than dealing with compressed hydrogen, a la Germany, no more difficult than LPG.
Unless, of course, you firmly believe the U.of NSW published data/press releases/industrial scale pilot plant is just "fake news" --- as seems to be the case with more than one of you, not limited to Bloggsie.
Tootle pip!!

Machtuk,
Sadly, a bit too close to the truth.
For those of you who are able, cast your minds back to late 1960s, with the intention of converting the greater part of the Australian vehicle fleet to LPG, and greatly reducing our reliance on imported fuel ( which was less, percentage-wise, than now!!) --- then stupid changes to excise tax policy cut the feet out from under the economics of local LPG, for other than fleet use ---- (and remember it was Labor, whose Shorten tax and spend policies after May will make Whitlam look like a beginner) , so we are now more dependent than ever on imported fuels.
Read Donald Horne's "The Lucky Country".
Tootle pip!!

Folks,
For those of you who are Google challenged, a few hopefully helpful references:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018...without-carbon
https://www.evolving-science.com/env...le-fuels-00729
https://marketbusinessnews.com/austr...s-fuel/182909/
And all of the above without consideration of the recent development to "easily" turn ammonia back into hydrogen and nitrogen.
And that is just the Australian scene.
Tootle pip!!