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-   -   Forty Years On (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/614584-forty-years.html)

Stationair8 21st Oct 2018 07:13
Forty Years On
 
Today marks 40 years since Fred Valentich disappeared on a flight to King Island.

By George 21st Oct 2018 07:45
I was part of the search, my log-book shows 3.20 in VH-MBT (a Chieftain from AAC). Covered a lot of sea without a trace on the 24th. Very strange that one. VH-DSJ, a C182 if my memory is correct?

Desert Flower 21st Oct 2018 07:51
VH-DSJ, a C182 if my memory is correct?
Correct on both counts.

DF.

machtuk 21st Oct 2018 08:53
My God is it that long ago? I remember it as I was working at EN at the time, he's still out there, somewhere! Cant imagine what that time must have been like for his family/friends, even ATC, very disturbing:-(

Petropavlovsk 21st Oct 2018 09:04
Time marches on; hard to imagine it will be 32 years next January since the tragic suicide into Connellan's hangar at Alice Springs.

0ttoL 21st Oct 2018 09:05
His father, Guido, was a lovely man and he never gave up the search for his son.

Squawk7700 21st Oct 2018 09:18
It may come as a surprise to many “believers” that they did actually find wreckage from his aircraft a fair while after.

Pinky the pilot 21st Oct 2018 09:24
It may come as a surprise to many “believers” that they did actually find wreckage from his aircraft a fair while after.
Do tell, Squawk7700. A genuine request BTW; I'm not criticising your post.

Kulwin Park 21st Oct 2018 09:39
Who was this person? Was he famous? I've only been in aviation for 27 years, but have a keen interest in old stories.

cogwheel 21st Oct 2018 09:48

Paul O'Rourke 21st Oct 2018 09:48
Originally Posted by Pinky the pilot (Post 10288374)
Do tell, Squawk7700. A genuine request BTW; I'm not criticising your post.
I do recall reading, in the files, a cowl flap washing up on flinders island a few years later. It said it came from an aircraft of that type but there was no statement saying it was definitively from DSJ. There was an issue with a fuel leak too if memory serves me correctly. Must check it out. There was a piece in the Herald Sun during the week.

Squawk7700 21st Oct 2018 11:05
From WikiPedia,

A Department of Transport (DOT) investigation into Valentich's disappearance was unable to determine the cause, but that it was "presumed fatal" for Valentich.[2] Five years after Valentich's aircraft went missing, an engine cowl flap was found washed ashore on Flinders Island. In July 1983, the Bureau of Air Safety Investigation asked the Royal Australian Navy Research Laboratory (RANRL) about the likelihood that the cowl flap might have "travelled" to its ultimate position from the region where the aircraft disappeared. The bureau noted that "the part has been identified as having come from a Cessna 182 aircraft between a certain range of serial numbers" which included Valentich's aircraft.
What would be prudent would be to find out the serial number of the 182 that was damaged on Flinders was within the range of the cowl flap that was found. It also sounds like a bit of a stretch that based on his departure time etc that the cowl flap could have made it all the way to Flinders island over a period of 5 years (I think it was).

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 21st Oct 2018 11:09
How would a cowl flap float? Or to what would it be attached to that would float?

Squawk7700 21st Oct 2018 11:11
In their words, it crawled the sea floor.

Flyboy1987 21st Oct 2018 11:18
I’ve read quite a bit into this incident, I find it interesting.

The ATSB (or whatever they were called at the time) refused to ever release the ATC recordings, is this normal?

He did report rough running of his engine, if he lost engine power I imagine his AH was ran off the engine vac pump, not the best thing to lose at night.

I’ve seen quite a few displays of shooting starts on clear nights, sometimes I would swear it was a light about to come through my windscreen.

i would love for this mystery to be resolved, I imagine after 40 years in the shallow ocean there would be bugger all left of a light aircraft, maybe just an old rusted engine block.


Squawk7700 21st Oct 2018 11:38
Don’t forget though, that this individual was apparently obsessed with UFO’s and that was well known...

Tee Emm 21st Oct 2018 12:55
he lost engine power I imagine his AH was ran off the engine vac pump, not the best thing to lose at night.
And with only 150 hours and a couple of hours under the hood where it is easy to look outside, a pilot of that low experience could no way be expected to maintain control at night using only an electrically powered Turn Coordinator or Turn and Bank indicator. Even nowadays it is unheard of to find private pilots practicing limited panel flying (no artificial horizon) on their desk top simulator or flying school FTD; despite they would be wise to do, however.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 21st Oct 2018 17:52
ATC recordings
He was talking to Flight Service, not ATC. I heard a copy of the FS tapes when I was a sprog FSO in Melbourne, and worked with the FSO who was on that end of the radio. Can't really remember much from the recording, except that, to me, he sounded confused. I find it strange that 11 mins from Cape Otway, heading into the darkness with a rough running engine, he elected to continue to cross Bass Strait towards King Island.

Flyboy1987 21st Oct 2018 22:27
Originally Posted by Squawk7700 (Post 10288469)
Don’t forget though, that this individual was apparently obsessed with UFO’s and that was well known...

Correct, and a good point.

if this was self inflicted and he wanted to remain a mystery, he’s done a great job. 40 years later and we’re still scratching our heads.

Although i think I read that the possibility of suicide was completely ruled out by those close to him.

Squawk7700 21st Oct 2018 23:22
Originally Posted by Flyboy1987 (Post 10288912)

Although i think I read that the possibility of suicide was completely ruled out by those close to him.
I doubt anyone could really ever say this with confidence. (Not disagreeing what you’ve said FYI)

Flyboy1987 21st Oct 2018 23:33
Originally Posted by Squawk7700 (Post 10288948)


I doubt anyone could really ever say this with confidence. (Not disagreeing what you’ve said FYI)

i believe he also departed full tanks in his c182 and with 4 life jackets. After flying for an hour or so, would he have the payload to pick up 3 people?

Any ideas as to how he was navigating? Just a map and watch?


Squawk7700 22nd Oct 2018 00:16
Where are you headed with this, do tell?

Flyboy1987 22nd Oct 2018 00:26
Originally Posted by Squawk7700 (Post 10288976)
Where are you headed with this, do tell?
Haha nowhere really, but if you were planning on crashing out at sea, would you bother to refuel your aircraft to full capacity before leaving?

As for navigating, would he have been dead reckoning?
Possible that he was no where near where he thought he was and why nothing was ever found?
I think I read he had failed numerous license tests and had broken prohibited airspace a couple times in the past, perhaps due to poor navigation skills?

aroa 22nd Oct 2018 00:53
Time past quick time...another enduring mystery has just hit or passed the 40 yrs ago mark.
C 206 4-5 POB Mt Isa to Atherton....Have some notes somewhwere no can find at the moment. 1977? 8
En route report was 10 north abeam Geogetown . ETA for Atherton was 10 min before Last Light.
I was the burning season before the Wet and visibility was very poor. In the evening calm it got even worse at lower levels..there was a road alert vis to 50 mtrs.
ADF on board u/s apparently....not that there was anything on the Tablelands apart from radio stations..
3AM 558 was good and strong and would have been a life saver...alas.
Got lost, flew around, talked with CNS for hours...NO VDF there, 'homing' to tried with signal strength, ( lots of hills around.!!)..to no avail until fuel was exhausted. And they fell to earth ...where?
In the Coral Sea or the rain forest. After a colossal search, Cooktown to Townsville deep and 50nm inland to the Outer reef wide..NIX , Nought , Nothing ever found.
Whey the hell they never asked the guy to steer SE and climb...in 20 mins he would have been on TVL radar. That was the ONLY identifier in NQ in those days
Many, many interesting questions could be asked about this mystery. Make a good doco.
2 days later we flew south IFR in smoke over the tablelands until popped out into the bright blue clear at 8500'

nonsense 22nd Oct 2018 17:54
https://www.csicop.org/si/show/the_v...ld_case_solved

lucille 24th Oct 2018 05:11
Originally Posted by By George (Post 10288315)
I was part of the search, my log-book shows 3.20 in VH-MBT (a Chieftain from AAC). Covered a lot of sea without a trace on the 24th. Very strange that one. VH-DSJ, a C182 if my memory is correct?
AAC? Now that brings back memories of many Age newspaper runs to Canberra in the dark of night. Are they still operating?

Stationair8 24th Oct 2018 05:30
No Lucille, AAC went out of business in the late 1990’s.

Back then there would have have been no rescue choppers and limited night search capability with fixed wing aircraft.

Does anyone know whether the RAAF would have been involved in the search?

Does anyone know when the first aircraft were dispatched for the search and where from-assuming Melbourne basin?

Who run the search co-ordination, and how long did the search go for?

A workmate, flew DC-3’s, across Bass Stait into King Island and Tasmania on night freight and he reckons some older Skippers had some interesting stories about seeing strange lights about the time DSJ disappeared.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 24th Oct 2018 07:50
Those were the days of Operational Control by ATC. The Senior Operations Controller (SOC) at Melbourne was probably the search coordinator, because it was in his FIR. That's how it was usually done back then.

Paul O'Rourke 24th Oct 2018 10:08

chimbu warrior 24th Oct 2018 11:02
Time marches on; hard to imagine it will be 32 years next January since the tragic suicide into Connellan's hangar at Alice Springs.
Actually it will be 42 years. Event occurred in 1977.

Stationair8 25th Oct 2018 03:24
Thanks for that info Paul.

cowl flaps 25th Oct 2018 12:45
Did the investigation mention anything about interviewing or questioning the 3 pax he was (supposedly) on his way to pick up ?
It was mentioned somewhere, that he loaded 4 life jackets before departure.

Flyboy1987 25th Oct 2018 21:47
Originally Posted by cowl flaps (Post 10292166)
Did the investigation mention anything about interviewing or questioning the 3 pax he was (supposedly) on his way to pick up ?
It was mentioned somewhere, that he loaded 4 life jackets before departure.
I think it was some friends he told people he was picking up....the friends in question were told by Fred that he was going to pick up crayfish, or something along those lines.


Sparrow_start 26th Oct 2018 00:52
I know an instructor who flew with Fred once, at another school at Moorabbin and refused to allow
him near any of their aircraft that flight due to obvious mental health issues.
Apparently his issues were well known and the subject of his mental health issues
has not been mentioned as a cause of the accident.

There are enough people still around who heard the radio calls that night.
If and when they find the wreak, it will only give the UFO believers more
ammunition.

cowl flaps 26th Oct 2018 12:02
Originally Posted by Flyboy1987 (Post 10292577)
I think it was some friends he told people he was picking up....the friends in question were told by Fred that he was going to pick up crayfish, or something along those lines.
Thanks FB1987. That explains the third last paragraph in Paul O'Rourke's last excerpt mentioning crayfish sales and then no motel room being booked.
It's starting to sound more like he was one of the tin foil hat fruit loops.


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