A mnemonic IS an appropriate checklist, nobody is saying just jump in and go without any thought or flow!
Does the ops manual of the aircraft have a printed checklist as a required part to be on board?
What happens if you forget/lose your checklist?
I never even saw a printed checklist for my first couple of dozen aircraft types until I got to jets! :)
Even on heavy jets you follow a flow by memory and only confirm with a checklist.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. Yes I agree that a single engine airplane can be safely operated using nenomics and flows. No, I don't think that the FAA would agree that will fill the requirement for "completing a checklist". Perhaps CASA has a broader view on that. Like I said, I don't know about that. If a CASA inspector would that sufficient on a checkride, I've no issue.

All the ones I've seen do. I've always assumed that it was a required element of a POH.

“Required element”, or just something that is generally there?
Are you saying that a C172/Baron etc that does not have a written checklist on board is now grounded?
I would love to see that somewhere in writing! ;)
I can say that I completed CPL and MECIR (well, it’s ancestor anyway) tests without written checklists, however that was a long time ago. :)

Your C172 or Baron would definitely be grounded.


The law requires you to carry the flight manual on board, I am pretty sure all flight manuals contain said checklists.

Mikewil,
At the risk of picking a few nits, the original C-172/180/182 certification predates mandatory AFM/POH.
I would also make the comment that many GA aircraft manufacturer check lists are terrible, they are NOT really check lists at all, they are procedures lists, leaving you between a rock and a hard place "legally".
For a B767/744, the total normal operations checklists from brakes off the brakes on is a short list on the control wheel boss, why does it run to page after page for many GA aircraft.
Tootle pip!!

Never seen one with a checklist, the old manufacturers one may have had one.
Of course the last time I flew one the old CAA flight manuals were in force. ;)
I wonder how I passed all those tests and Instructor/Instrument renewals without ever using a printed checklist? :)

I have to say, I'm scratching my head over this statement. You've never seen a manual with a checklist????? I have to ask, how many aircraft manuals have you actually read? I don't think I have ever seen a manual for a light airplane manufactured in the last 60 years or so whcih did *not* contain checklists. The regulations regarding manuals and aircraft certification have changed over the years, prior to, I think 1979, an aircraft manual was just *A* manual. After that date, the manual became part of the aircraft equipment, it had a part number and was specific to one individual aircraft, and it will have the aircraft serial number printed in the manual. It was *the* manual, it was required to be updated, and it was a part of the airplane. You could have copies, and you could get generalized manuals from the manufactures whcih had essentially the same information, but they were not *the* official manual for *that* individual airplane.

Here's a scan of a 1967 Cessna 172 manual The checklist begins on the 4th page of the .pdf (Page 1-1).

Here's a scan of a 1982 Cessna 172P "information manual" The 172P was certificated in the era after the serialized aircraft manual was required, but still in the era when a new model had CAR 3, (the predecessor regulations to Part 23) as a certification basis. This is called an "information manual" because it is not *the* aircraft flight manual. this would be the manual that a flight school would give (for a price, of course) to a student that he would take home to study. A note on the third page of the .pdf explains this status and how the "information manual" does not replace the "Official Pilot's Operating Handbook, and FAA Approved Flight Manual" The Emergency Checklists begin on pg 35, and the normal operating checklists begin on page 55.

Here's an "Information manual" for a 2007 172R. The 172R, unlike the 172-172Q, was entirely certificated under the current Part 23 Airworthiness Standards. (vice the predecessor CAR-3 regs) It contains a similar note in the front that the "information manual" when printed contains the same information as the official POH and Approved Flight Manual, but because it is does not get updated, cannot be considered a replacement for the manual assigned to the specific aircraft serial number. Emergency and Normal Checklists are found beginning on pg 72 and 112, respectively.

Lest you be tempted to think that this is just a Cessna phenomenon here's a link to a manual for a 1975-1977 Citabria Checklists are in the Emergency procedures section, normal procedures section, and also printed on the back cover for convenience.

I also have a manual for a 1965 Helio Courier. It contains checklists. I'd have to host the file somewhere in order to provide a link, and I'm far too lazy for that, so you're just gonna have to trust me on that one.

Since you earlier mentioned Barons, here's a link to the "Normal Procedures Section of the POH for the G58 Baron. Yep, you guessed it ... checklists.

Can you provide a link to the manufacturer's manual for a general aviation aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate manufactured in the last 60 years which *doesn't* contain checklists?

I’ve never used any of the checklists in any of the POHs/Flight Manuals in any of the aircraft I’ve flown, with one exception: emergency undercarriage extension.

Why do you think instructors invented all those TMFISCHs and BUMFHHs and PUFFs and CFMMs etc?

The question I was answering was "Are there checklists in aircraft manuals?" not : "Are the checklists found in aircraft manuals good checklists in a convenient location?"

Roger. My mistake.

You are correct, although most of those checklists were crap, embedded in manuals.
There were two seperate ops manuals, the “official” dca, dot, caa, casa (have I missed any?) one and the manufacturers manual, full of interesting stuff (and perhaps some crap checklists)
The fact is though that nobody in the 70s/early 80s took any notice of them! (They did contain good stuff like how to drop the gear as Leadsled said!)
Regarding my own experience, hmm : various singles, travelair, pa23, pa32, baron, c310, pa31, Beagle206!
B747,767,737,a330.
Yep, used a few checklists over the years, just not in 172s, or most of the twins! (I think the navajo had a rolling thing on the control column.)
The original argument was more “do you NEED to use printed checklists” in bugsmashers during a checkflight?my answer would still be no.

Asquared,
Have look at your pdf of the 172 manual.
Under checklists are a bunch of “do” items, no actual checklists as an airline pilot would know them. ;)

True, but you kind of derailed that discussion by making some, ummm, questionable statements about Checklists not being in manuals, and manuals not being required.

Back to the question at hand; By your own admission, you haven't been involved in General Aviation or flight instruction for about third of a century. Are you sure that "no" is still the correct answer? Are you really sure? As I said earlier, I don't have a whole lot of insight into the way things are in GA in Oz, other than what I read here, but I'm fairly sure that a check-ride with the FAA that didn't involve printed checklists would be short and unsuccessful. I'd be interested to hear what the story is in Oz from someone who's been involved in GA flight instruction in this millennium.

Well, if you're going to argue that the checklists that Cessna has in their manuals, labeled "checklist", aren't actually checklists, then you'd probably better take that argument to Cessna. Again, I wasn't arguing that they were good checklists, just that they are there.

Sorry Asquared, not too current on Oz GA these days.
I did my FAA checkflight last year though! :)
Not a checklist in sight!