CSFCWA grounded
 

During a discussion at JANDAKOT Yesterday was told that all of China Southern's training operations have been suspended by the regulator. A time of three to six months was mentioned. That will be expensive and require a lot f work to bring the students back up to speed.

Whats the reason for the suspension ?

I heard (unconfirmed rumour - but the is pprune) that it was due to lack of senior staff.

By "senior staff" do they mean old farts?

So are they lacking a CFI or CP?

I did see on SEEK, a week or 4 ago, an ad looking for the services of a CFI.

Word on the street is that Merriden was closed some months ago, ops transffered to Jandakot.

Folks,
Who owns the outfit now, seeing as China Southern sold out quite a while ago, and only had "remnant" training there, having moved most of their cadet training to Canada.
Tootle pip!!

CAE I think?

Thank goodness for that; peace on the radio instead of the unintelligible transmissions all over the South West.

....yes less fuel sales, fewer instructors/maintenance people required, fewer ops people required, less aviation ; yes that's good, NOT!

Yeah ... sounds like CASA would be happy:

Less people in the air (outside of the major airlines) - Check!
Less people employed in criminal activity (committing general aviation) - Check!

Plus

The team that runs this country (property developers and speculators) will win again as another nail's hammered into YPJT!

There are a lot of people employed there and it brought in a lot of revenue to WA, how can anyone say this is a good thing?

The loss of revenue for Jandakot will probably be passed on to the other tenants.

Enjoy your peace on the radio.

Folks,
Let's go back a bit further, as this has been a long time coming.

The WA Government, in times past, put together a quite large scale plan for development of aviation businesses in WA, to the intended long term benefit of the WA (and Australian) economy ----

In short, to "Promote and Foster" aviation in WA.

I still have a copy of the report and final policy document --- an impressive publication, whichever way you looked at it, except if you worked for CASA in Canberra.

A direct upshot of that, and WA trade missions to RP China, was WAFC becoming China Southern WAFC --- Merredin airfield was acquired, and a (then) US$750,000,000.00 (three quarters of a billion dollars US) development was announced.

That is a bloody big investment, even in 2017 dollars, let alone fifteen years ago.

Then came CASA, after frustration after frustration, the investment program was truncated, and finally canned, and most of the money went to NZ, and to Canada, where the respective regulatory authorities are not actively hostile to aviation --- the hostility often tinged with undisguised racial bias --- as exhibited on this thread.

A couple of years ago, I attended a major GA conference in Xi'an, China, where I had a long conversation with the head of China Southern's external to China cadet pilot training program -- unsurprisingly, his comments were scathing.

He made it very plain( at a breakout session) that they (China Southern) would never again consider Australia as a place for cadet training, as had originally been intended ---- they have a policy of training cadets in a western environment.

Australia really is "the lucky country" ---- and Donald Horn did not mean that to be a compliment.

Tootle pip!!

Leady; Which further reinforces my view that it is an active and definite plan of CASA to deliberately destroy General Aviation in Australia!:=:mad::ugh:

Why??:confused: FIIK!:=

I'm with 'Clare',

'Hear Hear' as they say......

AND....From 'LeadSled'
Re" He made it very plain( at a breakout session) that they (China Southern) would never again consider Australia as a place for cadet training, as had originally been intended ---- they have a policy of training cadets in a western environment"

Surely this could be an issue for "DFAT" to take up.
It seems that 'our regulator' may be stifling foreign investment and trade..??
Has this ever been put before the Minister?

No cheers :ugh:

Leadie.....why is it that Dick has not been all over the media with that feedback? It is sad to read your words, and hardly surprising.

I am not sure there is a written policy to destroy GA in Australia, but there certainly seems to be zero doubt that they do their best to stamp out any spot fires of GA they find at all costs.

Just like another regulatory authority group that write their own "policy" despite what the act says.

Sorry - just had a few beers and wine but I get tired of hearing about how bad CASA is why they are the baddies but seriously - whinge as much as you want - talk is cheap, it has been going on for ages and nothing changes.

Their mandate is safety, not sustainability. That is what they were tasked to do, it is in their mission statement.

Given that, they do what they are tasked to do.

Sustainability of the industry is *not* what they are asked to support. Why do we expect them to somehow look for sustainability and growth? Why are we surprised that they don't?

What we need is not to whinge about them for doing what they were tasked to do, what we need to do is lobby the government to change their mandate!

We need a governing body whose mandate is explicitly to support aviation. Whinging about them doing their job might feel good but changes nothing. We need to change their job.

We need to have a body whose mandate is not just industry safety but also industry sustainability.

That will happen when we push that with politicians through industry bodies and through representations to our local members and senators.

A safe AND viable industry will be good for our economy. Change the CASA mission rather than ask why they work to uphold their mission rather than expect them to just decide to do what we want. They are doing their job. It is the job requested that is wrong.

Going to bed now... probably will regret posting tomorrow... :(

Once you've had your beauty sleep, let us know what your definition of "safety" is.

That's the heart of the problem.

The almost inevitable consequence of giving one agency responsibility for both "safety" outcomes and the setting of "safety" standards is that the agency's response to any accident will be the imposition of more rules and more restrictions. It's like making the police responsible for both the road toll and the setting of speed limits.

The other problem is that it's all good and well to say "Well that's their job" but should they also not be able to use some common bloody sense and think "Well gee, we should probably be trying to do a bit more for the Industry!!". Instead they sit at their desks, fat, dumb and happy pulling in large amounts of money and giving back the bare minimum.

Not arguing with the need for a pro-aviation body, but unless you subscribe to the "only empty* skies are safe skies for all" mantra, then the "safety" mandate of CASA is still an issue ... because its the administration and implementation of the system that is the problem.

A giant taxpayer-(over)-funded organisation, dedicated in the first instance to itself, and a distant third to safety, will neither advance safety nor aviation.
CASA's principle aim - "safe jobs (for life) for all" (as well as its secondary aim - "well paid jobs for all") requires that it constantly make increasing amounts of work for itself.

There's no point in operational efficiency.

And by making sure of overpaid lifetime jobs at all levels of a self-sustaining bureaucracy, the ultimate imperative is making work ...

Therefore, if one rule makes you safe - a hundred rules are preferred (with commensurate administrative requirements).
And if jumping through one hoop keeps you on your toes, jumping through a hundred keeps CASA in clover.

As far as CSFCWA, I wouldn't be surprised if, in addition to the usual absurd level of interference, "oversight" and paperwork, CASA decided that it might try an toss in a shed-load of ambit requirements, conditions and charges to the potential money cow. Typical CASA, however, to kill the golden goose!


NB: In relation to the police analogy ... thankfully, I've never met a cop so much more petty-minded than a parking inspector, yet who not only personally creates the law, also enforces it, and keeps the revenue for himself! Even the caricature small-town, backwoods, "broken tail-light" sheriff is less vindictive and more honest than the CASA collective!

____________
*Empty, aside from a million unregulated drones...

Numbers, I really agree with some of your sentiments.
The old public service Ethos, take something that should be relatively straightforward, and complicate the crap out of it, because if it works
there's no need to fix it because of "Unintended" consequences. This is the old make work scam.

I sometimes wonder what the true cost of the implementation of Part 61 ended up being. It was McComics last hurrah rushed through at the last minute before he departed the scene, the last laugh of an angry man, and huge finger to the industry.

Then I wonder if it was really the old public service ethos, create a monster, then sit back for an endless fix it program keeping everyone gainfully, or should I say un-gainfully, employed attempting to slay the monster. Whole public service empires have been built on this little scam.

The cost of attempting to fix the unfixable part 61, will I have no doubt, vastly exceed the cost of the original implementation.

Unrelated but related, have heard another Chinese airline training school is in trouble...

I have heard that MFTA at Mangalore as suspended operations.

And left 33 Instructors and a bunch of staff out of work! I hear the owner has gone to ground.

Regulatory action pending or Contract Issues you reckon?

Look. I'm happy to be first in line to bash CASA when it's due, but if you don't even wish to be compliant even with basic things, and you continue to battle against the 'machine' then you will (eventually) get suspended or shut down. Take these current schools out of it, it's not that hard to please them. Attempt to do it by the book, admit when you've screwed up and show them how you're fixing it. Play the game and it's a lot easier.

Hide things, and battle the machine and you will be hard pressed to get anywhere and they will be on you.

I know for a fact that these guys DO NOT take shutting down a large operation lightly. They don't want to put people out of work, but they also have a role to play (some of it useless and some not) and some people are simply criminal and dangerous and should be out of the industry .

when there is a lot of negative talk around an operation, then I tend to thing there's substance to it - the good operators are never really on the radar and we , as pilots, all like to bitch and moan, so the goodns go quietly about their business.. But the sh1t joints get canned around the coffee machine mercilessly!

There's a lot of good guys and gals out of work right now, so good luck to em.

Probably a few nuff-nuff's as well- perhaps they need even more good wishes...

Any further updates on the China Southern situation? The refueler is suggesting a return next month

I used to work with them, and still have a few friends there.

They had initially put out a start date of 1st September, but a few more senior people have left (like the HAAMC), so they need to hire on more people, which will push back the restart date.

But, pretty sure once they do re-open they will be looking for more instructors. Many of their old ones have left.

Does anyone know what the latest is with CSWAFC? Pretty sad to see all the aircraft sitting around doing nothing.
Have they managed to fill the positions they needed to?