Another Establishment About To Close?
A certain helicopter operator is going to get the Friday afternoon fax pulling the AOC on Christmas Eve from what I've heard.
Deserved or not, timing this stuff to coincide with major holidays is an infantile lawyers game that should be beneath an alleged Government instrumentality. |
Low life's perform low life acts!
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Disconnect the fax friday morning?
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It is actually a email these days.
But to keep with the very long tradition of the CASA Friday Arvo Fax! We still call "that email" a fax out of respect for the dead. |
Either way, what happens if you "didnt receive it until Tuesday"?
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Generally Styx75, a lot of emails can have a "Receipt of Email" attached to it, basically they send it and the moment you open it it'll send another email back automatically acknowledging it has been opened. I'm not 100% sure of the ins and outs of that sort of thing but from what I understand it's not hard to implement and I'm sure they probably would have something similar.
But regardless, it's exactly this sort of sneaky, underhanded BS that has completely destroyed any trust between CAsA and the Industry. |
They did the same thing with Hardy's in Darwin four years ago. Must be in their SOP manual. :sad:
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Any hints. Which operator?
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It is actually a email these days. But to keep with the very long tradition of the CASA Friday Arvo Fax! We still call "that email" a fax out of respect for the dead. |
Megan, I thought Hardy's misinterpreted the letter and they stopped all operations when they didn't actually have to.
It was a little while ago and the memory is foggy. |
"I thought Hardy's misinterpreted the letter and they stopped all operations when they didn't actually have to"
I believe this is wrong, but a incorrect report to the media from CASA. The senior person I knew at Hardy's with the letter on their desk had no misinterpretation as to grounded or not - if it were in fact true it would not have been sent after CASA closing hours = 4.22 pm |
sending an email is legally the same as sending a letter...
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sending an email is legally the same as sending a letter... |
Yes.
Electronic Transactions Act 1999 (C'wealth) I believe? This may also be relevant: https://www.casa.gov.au/standard-pag...ing-electronic |
In Outlook it is possible to request a 'delivered' message, which means it is on their server or a 'read' message which has to be initiated by the recipient when they open it (and may not be initiated). However, it is also possible for a server to be rigged to not acknowledge any messages and to only send a "We do not acknowledge message being read" auto message, like our ever helpful Shire office!
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Delivery receipts are not reliable as the user can send or choose not to send.
A service like "Read notify" would be better. Tells you when it was received, opened, from where and also those it was forwarded to. |
I think you will find that having agreed or consented to receive electronic communications, when an email is sent to the email address you provided, the communication is considered delivered.
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So who's in the sight hairs Sunny? Spill the beans!
Baseless thread without any facts, or is this just an excuse for another CASA bashing exercise? |
Wait and see Ducky.
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The clock is still ticking down.
Would not surprise me in the least if it actually comes true. Usual christmas present for someone in industry. SOP: 3:59pm: Reach for the "send" button over the office partition with a broomstick from the waiting elevator? |
So Sunfish, is this operator the one that yeaterday took off backwards over the river and flew backwards over my boat heading down stream without even knowing they power-blasted me from 30 feet above?
Or is the mob in question more "professional" than the one above? |
So squawk, you blindly sailed into a helicopter downwash for no good reason? This sounds like manufactured rage to me. keep clear of helipads Nimby lad.
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Originally Posted by Sunfish
(Post 9619126)
So squawk, you blindly sailed into a helicopter downwash for no good reason? This sounds like manufactured rage to me. keep clear of helipads Nimby lad.
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I believe it is normal procedure on lift off from a helipad to back away from the pad and climb at the same time until reaching transition height. This allows for a return to the pad in the event of a power failure.
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So, who got shut down, anyone??
The time has now passed so what happened? |
Originally Posted by Car RAMROD
(Post 9619308)
So, who got shut down, anyone??
The time has now passed so what happened? |
will check today
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Electronic transactions act. Just updated version of the old postal rule that reflects changes in technology.the precedent is 'if I send it, claiming you never received it, is not a legal defence.'
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Hey squawk, do you mean to tell me some atmospheric molecules were moved around your person without your explicit consent? Did the decibel level exceed an sensitive aural threshold? Quick! Take to the internet to right this injustice!
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Electronic transactions act. Just updated version of the old postal rule that reflects changes in technology.the precedent is 'if I send it, claiming you never received it, is not a legal defence.' Can you quote the provisions of the electronic transaction act that have the effect of deeming emails sent by the government as having been received by a private citizen or company? |
the old postal rule that reflects changes in technology.the precedent is 'if I send it, claiming you never received it, is not a legal defence.' |
Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
(Post 9626120)
I don't think that's what the electronic transaction act does, at least in so far as electronic communications from government to a private citizen or company are concerned. However, I'm prepared to stand corrected.
Can you quote the provisions of the electronic transaction act that have the effect of deeming emails sent by the government as having been received by a private citizen or company? These private citizens often have no other option but to reapply for another visa at a cost of $6,865 again. The AAT (MRT) also cost them around $2k. I think it is safe to say they only need to prove they sent it. |
Contracts which expressly permit the giving of notices by email typically deem the notice to have been received at:
(a) the time the email is sent by the sender; (b) a specific period after the time it is sent by the sender; or (c) the time shown on a "delivery receipt" received by the sender. There are potential issues with all of these methods and no easy solutions. For option (a), any delay between when the email is sent and when it is received is not accounted for, so what happens when the email is not received the instant it is sent? For option (b), what if the email is received after the specified period or not received at all? In both cases, it would be unfair on the recipient to deem the email to have been received before the recipient could have received it. While option (c) overcomes these issues, it creates a problem for the sender, as recipients can set up their email systems so that delivery receipts are never issued, even if the sender requests one. How then does the sender prove the time of receipt? Electronic Transactions Act 1999 (Cth) – risks This Act (and its state counterparts) provides some rules for determining when emails are taken to have been received. It says that, unless the parties agree otherwise:
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The subject matter of this thread has nothing to do with contracts.
It's not safe to say that all the government has to do is prove it sent an email to someone. |
This act covers email and faxs - I know it is the case with DIBP (Department of Immigration and Boarder Protection) and it certainly would not surprise many (yourself excluded Lead Balloon) if it is a CASA policy in fine print that if you elect/agree (contact with your signature and date) to communication via email, they have elected option (a) above.
In fact I would assume most if not all Government agencies have it as a default Leady. (Remember if CASA sent a "fax" on Christmas eve - but the fax did not print - fax was indeed considered received by CASA) Electronic Transactions Act 1999 (Cth) Is a faxed message an electronic communication for the purposes of the Act? Yes, it falls within the definition of ‘electronic communication’ because it is a message sent over phone lines as information. Usually the recipient receives the message through their fax machine in paper form but it can just as easily be received by a computer as an electronic document if the computer is attached to a fax modem. Alternatively, a computer can be used to send a fax to another computer. There will be no paper involved until either the sender or the recipient prints out the fax. |
My apologies, BaL. It's obvious you're an expert. :ok:
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It's wonderful to note that bush lawyerism, within GA, continues to prevail.
A very happy New Year to all. |
People (and legislators) have forgotten that a lot of email is a 'store-and-forward' system. There can be many points in the path between the devices at the sender and the recipient, for a message to be 'lost'.
Web-based email has less intermediate nodes, but without some form of 'delivery receipt' it is still not a guaranteed-delivery system. |
Yup biggles,
but since when have the facts,logic or common sense ever got in the way of the law? |
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