Which is the best camera?
 

I’m years out of date with cameras that mount on fixed wing and helicopters. Which one is the best one around now – is it the GoPro or is it the Garmin VIRB Ultra?

Does anyone have any experience on which is the best way to go for the best quality, the least vibration, and also removing that terrible propeller effect?

Action cams
 

Try this....

Action Cams: GoPro vs. Garmin - Videos Article

Go-Pro or garmin Virb. no others are as common or well supported

The recently released Hero 5 and Virb ultra both have digital image stabilisation and a neutral density filter will sort that out on either camera.

I bought a Garmin Virb XE and the prop filter earlier in the year - works very well, for me anyway so I am happy.

For those who saw the sample I posted: the prop filter works; pilot holding the sequence of aerobatic manoeuvres in his hand, which happened to be on a phone so an EFB refer CAAP 233-1 - wouldn't like to see a pilot do an unapproved design change to mount a sequence holder in the cockpit.

Prop filter is right: prop gone.

Aeros with his phone in his hand??

With cameras Dick, people follow the herd and only tiny proportion of what's really available are ever tried and recommended for aviation and airsports use.

I'm here so the huge range of alternatives are discussed with a quick overview and some recommendations.

First of all Technical:

The vast majority all use a Sony sensor of 12 megapixels - the outlier in the market is a smaller group of of Action Cams adopting a Panasonic 16 megapixel sensor.

Neither is CCD and none have global shutters which means 'bent' props and jello effects can be masked but never really cured with CMOS sensors. There's a lot of snake oil poured on these effects but the simple alleviation is a neutral density filter to drop the effective 'shutter speed.'

Active vibration control is the key and offered by Yi, SJCAM and Sony, missed by everyone in aviation and offered at prices that have given Go Pro a year from hell, a collapse in their share price and heavy layoffs at the beginning of 2016.

Processors: Ambarella is the key player with the A7 and the newer A9 offering top quality imaging output, widely used and respected. Novatek tends to dominate the lower division of super low cost models.

Finally on processors, Sony gets a mention again. Their very well developed Bionz processor line is used in various iterations across it's huge line of still and video products. The processor also gets a mention because it is key to the remote control facilities offered in the upper range if their action cams which move up into the Go Pro price range. An economical wrist controller allows you to monitor and operate up to 5 Sony action cams at once for very simple multicam set ups. It has a screen so you can check the output from each cam and that they are running.

Even better, the controller image synchs every sensor being used so editing and cutting between cameras is just like being in a studio. They are all synchronised together to create an electronic clapperboard system.

Pricing: Simply the rug has been pulled out from Go Pro and all the other cams mentioned in the posts above. They all use the Sony sensor but use a variety of lenses. Go Pro lenses are simple plastic barrels glued in the mounts. It is no accident that there's a thriving niche market in alternative lenses for different fields of view. Break free from the glue and insert an alternative from the security camera industry. Test, rotate until desired focus achieved and then glue. Check You Tube to see how it's done.

Budget Cams: An amazing number available starting at a tenth of the Go Pro Hero price. Generically known as No Pros but as you move up to 30% of the Go Pro 4 and 5 price bracket you will find models with genuine physical lens stabilisation working effectively. Yi and SJCAM are punting out 6 axis stabilisation at incredibly low prices.

That lens stabilisation is at a low price point for a reason. Any higher and they are on Sony's turf. These cameras are Chinese, work well, use the Sony sensors and Ambarella processors but, theres always a but. The Chinese have not yet understood the concept of western customer service. Solution? Buy from Amazon, the prices are so low it makes a 4K multi camera set up very attractive.

For more than a year now Sony have had models on the market at 50% of the cost of the Go Pro 4 but have a completely stabilised lens unit that cost more to produce than the entire Go Pro. The Go Pro 5 model is trying to counter that.

Check out the base model Sonys at 50% of GO Pro prices. Sony AS50 Action Camera at 168 USD. HD, flat bottom for mounting and the fully stabilised lens.

You were expecting that stabilisation by now but I was saving one item up. Like all the Sony cams this, the cheapest, has has a Zeiss lens. Still interested in that Go Pro at twice the price with a security camera lens glued in??

At Go Pro 5 prices look at the Rolls Royce end with cams like the Sony FDR-X3000 if the wrist controlled potential for multi cam set up appeals.

I do have a full set of tried and tested recommendations which I'm happy to share for those who feel able to step away from the herd who just buy what the other bloke's got. I can show you the Chinese super cams with full 4k and even the monitor screens produced with Corning Gorilla Glass. There's new breed of Japanese super tough cams from Olympus and Ricoh but I'll finish today with a special recommendation for Dick.

Dick - Entrepreneur, electronics ace, film maker of adventures and besotted by supporting Australia. His possible future camera is already being made in Oz right now.

As Dick has done the hard yards in producing his films I know he'll have a critical eye for quality and there's a super strong, magnesium bodied, ultra high quality TV broadcast camera being made in Australia by a company called Black Magic.

Think Go Pro on steroids and an interchangeable lens mount for pro glass from Olympus, Panasonic or, my recommendation, SLR Magic. All the cams previously discussed have a sensor smaller than your little finger nail. The Black Magic has one far bigger and records in RAW or the main Pro Res TV and film editing formats. The camera comes with the most widely used editing software in the world which is also owned by Black Magic and totally dominates Hollywood. It doesn't autofocus worth a damn for remote mounting but the wide lenses never needed that as GO Pro proved and why I belaboured the glued in lens business.

Interested? Here's a review: RedShark News - The Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera: "A great addition to anyone's arsenal."

Happy to return if there's any call for more information. I've been doing this remote mounting stuff since 1977

Regards
Rob

Great post Rob! Thanks for sharing your advice.

Hey Dick,

Thinkin' of getting back into the CE market? ;)

If you have 10 minutes spare this is worth watching. There's a few similar ones out there by other youtubers. Casey did a Sony comparison a while back and it wasn't an amazing review compared to the GoPro.

https://youtu.be/1FQ4NAfNyRA

The other big change is that stabilised mounts are now in the affordable range. Eg look at the DJI osmo which was used for this footage.
https://vimeo.com/172999817

Wow No_one, that is impressive footage indeed. I don't think I've even seen a gimbal on a fixed wing in Australia. These guys are experimental which would make it a lot easier.

Thanks for all the info. The DJI mount is impressive. Love to know how it is shielded from the wind in that video.

Anyone want to buy a $250 k Cineflex cheap?

The DJI Osmo is just the core of that system - theres a driven, baby cineflex turret around it by that company. That's what they're really selling.

Presumably a development model as when the Osmo gimbal is working you see it does its thing just fine but when the turret pans it is too fast and is undamped on the start and stop of the movement across that cloudscape. Soft start motor controllers would sort it.

Rob

It all depends on the installation investment you want to make. The RV video posted above doesn't really need to be concerned about prop distortion as it doesn't need to look in that direction, however mounting a gimbal may require a significant LAME investment. If you simply want to put a camera in the cockpit and have it film out the front to see where you are going, you'll need the filter. If you only want footage facing forwards and no control over where it points, the GoPro session 5 would be fine (wing mounted), but batteries aren't interchangeable so a Hero 5 would offer more flexibility.

Mounting a consumer grade SLR style stabilisation gimbal inside the aircraft (anything up to $1k) with a Canon D5 could work well. The video I posted above is filmed on a D5 for the studio scenes and skateboard unless noted otherwise as GoPro.

The biggest problem I find with GoPros and gimbals is managing the batteries and chargers. So many USB ports are required, it all gets too hard sometimes.

Squawk I have my Cineflex certified and mounted on the port wing of my Caravan C208 fixed wing. Works well but very expensive !

so many aircraft across Alaska, Canada, and the USA falling out of the sky with Go-Pros hanging off them....

Rob, I'd love to see your tips for cameras across the low to mid price range. I bought my teenage son a GP Hero 4 last Christmas on his advice, and having read your post I'm glad that I don't have a cat. It would have been kicked.

I'd quite like one for myself - where image quality and splash resistance are the priorities for use on a fairly wet boat. (I realise that this probably means a housing is needed). I'm not a brand junkie, but it would be nice to know that I might get usable warranty unless the £30 jobbies otherwise satisfy.

New breed out there boguing and you don't need a case.

For boats can I point you towards the Olympus Tough TG-Tracker series?

No case down to 100 feet, 4K, five built-in sensors (GPS, compass, barometer, accelerometer, thermometer), real Olympus lenses and quality plus very, very tough. Comes in at the Go Pro 4/5 price with proper warranties and support. Haven't tested it in water so you must check if it is a waterproof sinking brick and needs some floatation on the strap.

In contrast the Go Pro Hero 5 and 5 Session will go in water without a case but are only 1ATM rated to 33 feet.

One price notch down is the Ricoh WG-M2 - super tough for all outdoor activities no matter how wet or cold. Water, snow, ice all covered but think batteries in cold conditions for all these action cams and especially cell replacement when wet. Cheaper cams are generally 900 mAh units, middling are 1200/1300 (GoPro) and they top out at around 1700 mAh.

All the Sony units from the cheapest at 168 USD come with external cases for water and the top line one at GoPro prices is is 4K, rated to 197 feet and, of course can be externally hull mounted and controlled with the wrist monitor/controller.

Finally, and in the real budget range I'd like to suggest pointing out a newcomer, the OLFI ONE.FIVE 4K HDR ACTION.

It's 4K, Sony sensored, waterproof housing to 90 metres blah, blah, blah: great mounting options for boating - think suction, tube mounting and chest harnesses. But the real reason for this being at the the top of my list is HDR.

That's high dynamic range shooting and I'm not going to go on about it. Just get to a shop that prides itself on good TV and ask to see an HDR model side by side with their best 1080p and 4k traditional models. The womenfolk in my family have never been truly excited by 720p, 1080p or 3d as they arrived. They really can't get excited about 4k either but when they were shown the Barrier Reef in HDR their index fingers went straight out to point - that one please.

Attenborough's team are just about to release Planet Earth 2 but they're already arranging to go HDR for everything following.

Rob

Excellent Rob, I'm slightly less confused...

As I read through your reply I'd decided on either the Olympus or choosing one of the Sonys, but then got to your comments on HDR. And since impressing wimmin is always good, looking back through the choices I can only find HDR with the Sony HDR-AS50...

Given that the boat is now out of the water until March, should I wait until the likes of Olympus and Ricoh launch an HDR model (and hopefully benefit from post Christmas pricing?).

Sony's action cam HDR Exmor back illuminated sensor is hitting the open market now after serious production hiccups for all forms of sensor due to earthquake damage at the fab plant. These problems were confirmed at the giant Photokina show in Germany last month.

If you are not in a rush you at least have the time to go and see the TV sets. Even the streaming companies are sold on it when most of the TV companies just went 'Meh" for things like 3d.

Its one of those, 'You've got to see it things.' I do pity the poor sods who have to market HDR on traditional media though. Seeing is believing will be the key.

All of my cameras also shoot video and and the support industry like Australia's Atomos are fighting to get their magnificent Recorder/Monitors offering HDR at each product level.

Rob

Try Mark Himsworth in CH9 in Adelaide. He was looking into some Guimbal cameras when I was flying there some years ago but the cineflex was out of budget at the time.

The more time I spend making videos and in particular watching them on YouTube I can clearly see that it doesn't matter how much gear you have be it 1080 or 4K, it's not the quality of the video that makes people watch it, but rather the content.

You only have a minute or less, probably more like 10-15 seconds to grab the viewers attention; coupled to a catchy headline and thumbnail that got the viewers attention in the first place.

I often see some amazing footage on YouTube probably taken from a DJI Phantom 4 in 4K and think WOW! if I had one of those, imagine how many people would watch my videos and how much advertising revenue I would make!

If you're taking 4K documentaries, different story completely. The difference unlike YouTube is that you might get a 30 second timeslot to advertise your movie in the hope that it will grab a potential viewers attention.

Long story short... if you are good looking, funny, famous, have some good content and nice sandy beaches with blue Caribbean waters, you could film it on an iPhone 6 and people would still love it....!

Does anyone know how the new camera fitted to the 3DR solo drone compares
The new Sony UMC-R10C camera is supported by a custom-made gimbal which orients the camera in any direction and stabilizes it during flight. At 200ft, Site Scan achieves a resolution of 0.5cm/pixel (ground sampling distance)

Cripes Ethel, that would be good for your Quantity Surveying. :cool:

I'd have most of that list if Dick Smith came sailing with me - but I haven't got an iPhone. I'm upgrading from a six year old waterproof compact camera that insists on putting a purple stripe over my finely chiselled etc.. and Rob's suggestions cost less than I paid for it.

But I do take your main point.

For a non camera friendly pilot like me, what is wrong with a Garmin Virb mounted at the back of the cockpit? The garmin software puts speed, altitude and other information on the video.

What is wrong with it?

It will potentially incriminate you one day.

Why are you selling it Dick?


Mickjoebill

Dick,
Check your private message.
Mack

Technically speaking HDR is a description of displays, not video cameras.


Most professional cameras made this century record pictures of a dynamic range that is beyond the dynamic range of existing TVs.
In recent years consumer video cameras that have a "log" or "cine" gamma setting also record a high dynamic range.
HDR screen has to have a sufficiently powerful video processor as well as a bright screen.

If Dick needs a wing mounted camera and already has squirrelled a cable run from his gimbal then he has the means to make a long endurance 10bit low compression recording in the cabin from a good camera on the wing.

I've been using the Atomos HDR monitor/recorder in a helicopter this week.
It has a daylight viewable 1500nit screen and 10bit display.
Records 10bit HD or 4K with low compression on a robust and cheap SSD drive.

The Atomos makes an ideal recorder/pilot monitor for those cameras that can be wired into the cockpit.
It will replay your Top Gun footage into your 4K TV :), set it on loop play, to endlessly impress your clients or flying club mates.

In respect of cameras, global shutter and 10bit internal record or 10bit output is highly desirable.

Mickjoebill

Top thread! The Olfi appears to suffer the same issues as the go-pro with fisheye not rectilinear....but what a camera for the price:D

What about one of these,
Aussie made and it carries a Nikon D800 DSLR Portable Mapping Pods | Aerial Acquisitions .It flew last month and has an EO.
MC.

Mobile phones
 

Mobiles have some great cameras now, with good low light performance (e.g. S9). Any suggestions for holders with adjustable clamps that will attach to a seat back?

Murray Cod. Interesting development to cut back the costs of the 'good old days'.
But not just any old /or young joe/joess can use it.

Because you must remember..CAsA is also CACA..the 'commercial' regulator.
Court quote.." No person can take a photograph from an aircraft in Australia without an AOC or CPL."
Got that.?
Engaging in photography using an aircrart is a commercial purpose.
2 barrels to CAsA's shotgun. 206 (4) photography , a commercial purpose.. Need an AOC , CPL...
..and 27 d..' allowing an aircraft to be used for a commercial purpose'.., ie photography

The truly unbelievable stupidity of all this is...
One can get in any old aircraft take off, pass thru 10K, don the oxy mask, climb to 25,000 ft , if it will,,,,take your pictures...and you can GIVE them away. Thats OK . Any safety issue there?... obviously not
But if you as a Photographer receive any remuneration for your beaut pictures..you are one of the unsafest criminal in the skies of Oz..You must not SELL them...that is a criminal offence of commerce.
These days the papers and magazines, books etc are full of aerial pix, both oblique and vertical taken by every man, woman and flying dog, aircraft, drones ,whatever....and whats with CAsA.??.
The SAME old, same OLD crap still on the books.
Its a flustercluck.