Come on. After thirty years the RAAF have not been able to put modern internationally proven safe procedures in at Williamtown.

Aircraft still get held for up to 30 minutes orbiting over the ocean at Anna Bay because the missed approach has to be protected by their 1950' s airspace procedures .

The FAA specialists I have attempted to explain this to have been amazed at the lack of leadership in following international proven safe procedures.

I would imagine that underneath it all there must be low morale over this resistance to change.

Even the UK controllers I have spoken to say there must be incompetent leadership. What other answer could there be for not copying the best?

Jeez, it's like a scratched record.

Dick, you started out on separate civil/military ATC systems, moved on (via a truly bizarre diversion into nuclear submarines) to the Seasprite debacle, and now we're back orbiting over Anna Bay, in a post that might as well be a cut-and-paste of about a dozen others that have appeared here in recent months.

On each issue, you've either been shot down or had your questions answered, and it makes no difference - you just ignore it and move smoothly on to your next hoary old chestnut.

What troubles me is that some of your comments (I'm thinking here of the 'agenda to damage Australia' one and the 'military fools and piston-powered submarine' stuff) are not opinionated or passionate, they're just downright....odd. Odd to the point of being genuinely worrying.

One's credibility is a hard-won and precious thing. It's a shame you seem intent on burning yours up with bizarre and silly statements. Maybe time to pause, take a deep breath, and figure out exactly what you think you're achieving here?

My comments all link to exactly the same issue - the almost total lack of the military leadership being able to copy the best from around the world .

The last three CASA Chiefs have been military trained. Look at what has happened to our industry and the regulatory reform programme

GA is almost totally destroyed. Part 61 will contribute to that.

Over a year ago I had a meeting with Mt Skidmore and gave him a list of over twenty points that could save the industry money if actioned.

In the last 12 months not one change has taken place and not one person has contacted me from CASA to even discuss the points I brought up.

There is evidence that many of these ex military people are intentionally put in these positions to prevent any cost reducing reform.

I believe there is a plan in the Canberra bureaucracy to destroy the Non Airline aviation industry in Australia. The reason is obscure. Probably they don't really know why the group think operates in this way.

Many rational thinking people after reading my posts would not believe my credibility is being de graded. If some do- so be it.

I'd like to consider myself pretty rational and open minded, and after three months of reading your recent posts, you've lost a lot of credibility in my eyes. You do a lot of good Dick and I think your heart is in the right place so to speak, I genuinely think that, but your constant misguided attacks and shooting from the hip style of debate is ridiculous, as is your blatantly obvious grudge against the RAAF (as opposed to the government who administers it). This thread is a timeless example of your inability to look genuine responses in the face and admit that you might have it wrong (which happens to everyone).

Just my two cents.

Dick, if your arguments and reasoning (combined with your ability to listen) are anything to go by in this and the 10 other threads you've started in the last few months, I can quite clearly see why none of the hierarchy are listening to you. You're a fanatical.

I'm just sitting, reading, hoping that the man I thought was a champion for true blue Aussie causes is not the ignorant, nonsensical poster on this forum. I hope every time I see you post that it's actually an imposter using your name on the forum to undermine you. I truly hope it is.

Surely it's about time for another MDX thread? :rolleyes:

All of my posts are about what is destroying GA in Australia.

Most of you have all been successful in supporting the status quo and the ratchet increase of costs for too long.

Not even game to stand by your own names. No one would take you seriously. I am making sure all of this is on record.

To general readers- most of my critics are or were most likely on the gravy plane.

As I have said. Get out of GA as soon as you can. The quicker the destruction is finalised by those who post on this website who don't understand that aviation safety must be affordable the quicker the fix can come in. I would say at least a decade away.

And yes. Re MDX. The pilot was never allowed to communicate to the radar operator. I fixed that despite resistance by the typical dopes. Some are so stupid they want to go back to pre AMATs where pilots OCTA in good radar coverage can only communicate to a 1930s type radio operator. Crazy.

I dare you to comment on why Ex RAAF Mr Skidmore has not addressed even one of my 20 cost saving points.

And what is fanatical about attempting to reduce 20 minutes of holding at Willy when other leading aviation countries can operate a system that has far more efficient procedures.

Yes. I am glad I am undermining the credibility of the Iron Colonels- I bet that's what you dont like. You have got away with your destruction of our industry for a long time and many of us are on to you!

How many times do you need to be told why people post on here anonymously before it sinks in??? Unless of course you're willing to reach into your deep pockets and support someone who is let go by their employee after posting something critical on here under their real name??

I'm afraid from what I have seen of Canberra that Dick is right.

1. Canberra and its public service minions think of themselves as 'rulers" of Australia, they are totally unresponsive to the requests of ordinary citizens. We are an annoyance if we protest.

2. the senior public servants I saw in a variety of Departments view their "Customer" as the Minister, not the general public. We are relegated to "consumers". Hence their is no hope in hell of any customer focused initiative succeeding in our terms.

3. The RAAF, with one or two notable exceptions has an unfortunate capability of breeding unresponsive, egocentric, rigid thinkers with an enormous sense of self importance who find it difficult to cope with decision making in a commercial free market environment where information flow is less than perfect and decisions need to be made under uncertainty. Their usual response is to try to turn the organization they inhabit into a carbon copy of the Air Force, complete with hierarchy. They are incapable of independent thinking, let alone change or reform.

4. RAAF Officers seem to believe they are in some type of private club. Hence in institutions they form their own clique and work together as a. team to. achieve their own group objectives at the expense of and in defiance of, the goals. of the institution.

5. Traits (1) and (2) amplify the behaviors of (3). and (4) Canberra is a very small hot house that brings out the worst. The grey sponge incubates these creatures.

6. The freedom of movement of citizens via GA and recreational flying is as a direct threat to the rule of Canberra and is also anathema to the RAAF. That is why. ADS-B is so attractive - total information awareness to make control easier to achieve. ASICS, etc. and restrictive regulations are a step in this direction. Make no mistake, Canberra wants MORE regulation, ideally you shut GA and recreational aviation down as soon as possible. the Freudian slip about pilots being uncaught criminals is a reflection of this attitude.

To put that another way don't listen to what CASA says, watch what they do.

But wait, there is more.....ADFA is. a disaster according to a couple of people I know who have experienced it, and it's going to make matters much worse in future. ADFA now suffers from rampant political correctness and favoritism - did you know for example, that there are now 'military families' in Australia? junior goes to ADFA and gets special treatment because Daddy is an Admiral/General/AVM? sad but true. just wait till these perfumed princes and princesses join the ranks of our 'leaders".

unfortunately I believe I was correct when the good AVM was appointed, not a hope in hell of real reform despite his best intentions.

oh, and an integrated ATC system that is affordable and capable? not a hope in hell.

True. What's also on the record is you repeatedly saying things which are untrue and, in some cases, plain silly. How does having that on the record help your case? People have clearly explained why these things are untrue/silly, but you say them anyway. This suggests that either you're as bad at listening to things you don't want to hear as some people say, or you're simply choosing to say things which you know to be untrue.

I don't doubt your good intentions, and if you can genuinely make things better or simpler for aviation, then more power to you. Repeatedly spouting untruths and nonsense just doesn't seem like a good way to achieve it.

here's a new idea, how about requiring transparent cost/benefit analysis of all regulatory proposals?

I think my motto will now be: "I am become death, destroyer of GA". If I'm being accused I might as well enjoy it. Now I just have to find a few spare arms to wave about so I can take my proper form.......

'Arms' or 'Alms' Mr Le P....?

I suspect the latter would be preferable.......

Cheers:ok:

Or it could be both. Vishnu waving fistfuls of antipodean pesos?

Sunfish

Nice Great War characature. You really believe that war fighters operate in an 'environment of perfect information flow and certainty' don't you. Or you wouldn't have written that. :ugh:

Those involved in the support areas do. It's their way or the highway. To put it another way they get very stressed when dealing with ambiguity. when anyone raises issues involving ambiguity they start shouting. Then there are those who are emotionally immature, etc. the F III de seal/ reseal scandal explores all this.

To be fair, I don't mind rigid thinkers maintaining my aircraft (an Ansett engineer developed a persecution complex - the company made him chief inspector - exquisite promotion!).

However such folk, while they have their uses, have no business running civilian institutions staffed by ordinary humans.

Many of these comments are extremely insulting to the people in the RAAF and other armed services who work very hard and can be called upon to put their lives at risk to protect YOUR freedoms. Have you ever considered that problems such as 'rigid thinking' are a feature of the system rather than the individuals that work within that system? It's about time some people woke up to the fact that the Public Service is a bureaucracy, with all the disadvantages that type of system entails. It is not a commercial enterprise. You won't get anywhere by attacking a few individuals who have little or no chance of changing the way the system works.

The suggestion that RAAF officers can't cope with decision making in an environment where "information flow is less than perfect and decisions need to be made under uncertainty" is, quite frankly, laughable, as are some of the other derogatory comments above.

I say for the third time. It was ex RAAF Ron Cooper who introduced the first major cost reductions at CAA.

In more recent times it appears that those in the military who resist change and copying the success of others have more influence.

They are quite un -intentionally destroying the GA industry in this country.

Post #44Post #59So is there a plan or not?

Absolutely correct.

I think there are people in the department who have told the minister that GA is a problem so he should not associate himself with it in any way.

Bit like the " Yes Minister " episode about the advantage of hospitals with no patients.

Years ago the Minister would always come to the AOPA and RFAC AGMs but not any more.

oggers, you haven't had to work for the useless ex RAAF pr*cks I have had to endure.

Furthermore, they never stopped telling us they were ex RAAF officers!

Sunfish, remind us again how many of those there were? I seem to recall the number was 2, but please correct me if I'm wrong. And from this you can speak authoritatively about the qualities of all RAAF officers over many decades?

Leadership is about copying the best from around the world and incorporating that with what ever we already do better. And by that I mean anything that can give the the required outcome at the lowest possible cost.

I have found a resistance to do that with many Aussie military and ex military people.

I cannot see any light on the horizon for change that could benefit GA.

That's why I advise all those who write to me for advice to get a different career and if already in GA to try and get out now before everything is lost.

There is no valid reason as to why civil and military atc cannot be combined. There is a lot of fluff and bluster but essentially its the same job. Airservices was, at one stage, going to take over the running of non operational bases. Airservices used to provide atc at Darwin until cyclone Tracey.
So why not now? Firstly Airservices wanted to provide the service their way and commercially (this from the people who cant make a profit from a monopoly). Secondly, RAAF middle ranks had to protect their careers so they blocked the move whilst outwardly supporting the move. Along came JBAC to make them more 'essential' within defence.
The reality is that Darwin and Townsville should be controlled by Airservices as they are not R airspace and defence controllers do not have ICAO licences. It is also a reality that most defence controllers will never leave Australia and a large portion are not capable of being deployed.
Having said all that, I wouldnt trust Airservices to run atc at a base unless I had a contract with a lot of clauses about performance and service levels.
Finally, whilst Im on a rant about the system, why not allow towers and arff to be privately operated?

And neither does the military. Smart guys huh?

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Enough said.

"defence controllers do not have ICAO licences"


erm wut?

Erm yeah. Try getting a job overseas with only a military licence. Why do you think they are issued a nice new CASA licence when converting over? Training is minimal cause the RAAF follows the same competencies and they can be mapped over.

it's notthatbloodyhard:

let's see.......

At age Eighteen Moping around Point Cook tentatively approached one SqnLdr Duffy about what life might be like if I joined RAAF.... response: "eff off, go away"

subsequent as an army officer cadet and officer experiencing continual RAAF over promising and under delivering, unlike the fleet air arm.

..being instructed that if I did get to Vietnam, to request American helicopter support if an LZ was hot since Australian pilots (as courageous and skilled as the yanks) would cop a grounding and inquiry if they got a bullet hole in Their chopper.

..being told that the main use of Chinooks was not troop transport but RAAF logistical tasks like moving Tarmac vehicles.

.....the FIII deseal/reseal scandal and what it revealed about RAAF "culture".

......numerous visits to the grey sponge in support of winning consulting assignments.

..watching one proud ex RAAF engineering officer with borderline personality disorder destroy a major public company.

..watching two others do the same to part of the civil aviation sector.

on the other hand, the guys at HdH were tops.

by contrast my experience of former naval persons has been great.

CASA has a culture of bullying, intimidation, rigidity, injustice, capriciousness and possibly corruption. I would suggest that all but the Last attribute have had to come from somewhere and the culprit ,by definition, has to be an government institution because no private sector institution could survive any length of time without public exposure. that therefore points to the RAAF rejects as the source of the problem.

Thanks Sunfish, that's quite a list. I shouldn't even bother replying, because it's a waste of time, but then again I'm stupid and have nothing better to do right now. So:

- You've clearly encountered a few RAAF/ex-RAAF officers who were d1ckheads. So have I. Every organisation has them, and I've met some appalling pricks from all 3 services (the worst being from the Army, as it happens). The vast majority were great blokes, though.

- You seem to attach a lot of weight to 'things you've been told'. What you were told about RAAF Chinook ops is at odds with the understanding of any of the Chook drivers I've known. The stuff you were told about RAAF choppers in Vietnam is fascinating, although I've never heard anything remotely like it before.

- I'm not sure what the F-111 DSRS says about wider RAAF culture, if anything. In any case, if you're trying to portray the RAAF as worse than the Army or Navy, you're on very shaky ground when it comes to scandals which reflect poorly on a service's culture! Enough said on that one...

- Your final para about possible corruption in CASA which is definitely caused by ex-RAAF types doesn't really make a lot of sense. (And if you truly believe that meaningful corruption can't exist in the private sector, then we're not inhabiting the same planet.)

I'll be the first to agree with you that the RAAF has produced some appalling clowns and done some pretty ordinary things. So has just about every other organisation I can think of, including those you think so highly of. I still can't see that you're in any way qualified to pass judgement on thousands of people you've never met and have no knowledge of, however much confidence you might have in your own opinions. It seems that you're suffering from some serious long-term confirmation bias - which is why I'm wasting my time here:). Enough from me.

Duncan Aviation may have a reasonable outcome for your dilemma, Dick;)