Aircraft Hire Recomendations for Long trip.
 

Hi,

Im not far away from getting my PPL (on the way to CPL), and i want to surprise some family by flying down to visit them.

Plan was to fly from Archerfield to Dubbo (stay overnight), then to Port Pirie.
Then fly back in the reverse order.

Im researching the best aircraft to hire for this run.
A high cruise speed would be great (less engine & flight time), but its got to balance with the hire costs.

The Cessna 182 turbo RG have a nice cruise speed of about 180 (if anyone actually hires them out), but I would like to hear from you more experienced pilots what you would recommend.

I was consider hiring directly from an aircraft owner, but thought first i would work out which aircraft would be most suitable & affordable. Then try an negotiate a deal with an owner.

Look forward to your replies.

The turbo RG is a rare bird, you are more likely to find a 210.

I don't think any sane person/organization will let a fresh PPL'er to head off with their beloved turbo/complex beast whatever it might be. Even if the owner may have full confidence in you, the insurance company might think otherwise.

If you're working towards CPL, why not just do it in a regular spam can and let your hours build, you're going to need them anyway.

Yeah I haven't found anyone hiring them out. 210 is a good suggestion thanks. I found someone online quoting $345 per hour, is that a good rate for a 210? (was older post, prices may have gone up).

I have been wondering how insurance would work. It would be kinda od though if insurance wouldnt cover.. I will be legally licensed to fly anywhere in australia solo, and demonstrated competence via completing training.

I could wait and do it as part of my CPL hour building, but would really love to do it sooner. Kind of as a celebration of getting my PPL, and upcoming plans to visit family.

Insurance policies for more complex aircraft usually have a minimum hours and training clause so the owner would not be covered if he rented it out to someone with less.
It was many years ago but when I rented a 210 in SA I was 2 hours short of the minimum so I had to take a 172 out for 2 1/2 hours to qualify before the CFI would take me out for a check ride. The fact that I already had hours on another 210 from the same club was irrelevant. The nice shiny new one had stricter insurance and I needed a 6 seater.

I agree that an owner hiring to a new ppl is pretty unlikely. You're more likely to get a PA28 or C172 from a flying school, maybe even where you learnt. Having said that, as you are planning Brisbane to Port Pirie, why not post this in the Pacific GA forum? You'd get answers from Australia rather than the other side of the world. Who knows, you may even get a lead on an aircraft.

As for the trip, why go back the same way? The outback looks much the same in each direction. Think of returning via Broken Hill, Cobar, Coffs Harbour, 500' coastal, Gold Coast, Q1 then Archerfield? That way you will include Class D and Class C control zones. You may even get some practice with restricted areas around Evans Head. All good if you're planning on CPL.

Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense.

Yeah, my flight school is an option. But i think they would want the plane back ASAP. Where a private owner may be happy if i spend a few days with family not flying, before returning.

Thanks for the suggestion. Im not familiar with the this forum yet. At this stage im just researching which plane would be best/cost efficient for the trip.

Haha well, the way back is going to be a freight run. from YPIR to YSDU (bringing something back from one family member, to the other). But i like your suggestion for the rest of the trip back from YSDU to YBAF, cut across to Coffs Harbour then up to Goldy then Brisbane. Thanks :cool:

Suggest you hire the same type as you have done your PPL hrs build in. Familiarity on a long flight is an important safety factor.
Besides, the faster you fly the less time you have to work out why things aint going the way you had planned them. Stick to what you know and you won;t go too wrong.

Your logic is sound, but that would be one long slow boring trip in a 172. I like the idea of getting some experience in something else. Of course i will have to spend a few extra dollars for training to get checked off to fly.

I've actually been reading up on some of the kit planes like the RV-7. Nice and fast, fuel efficient, could be a winner (if i can find any to hire in brisbane).

What do you guys think about a RV-7 for the trip? Or something equivalent, suggestions?

You are going to need the hours for CPL anyway, so why rush. Plan a couple of challenging legs to continue improving you navigation technique. Go to some aerodromes that you may not otherwise get a chance to see.

Why not look at a 206?

They're not fast, but as mentioned if you're building command time then why rush?

No retract so you'll find insurance it easier to get, and if you can fit it through the door it'll probably take off with it (legally!). 200 series time will help you immensely when it comes to getting your first job! (Unless of course you plan on just becoming a flight instructor...)

There used to be a guy in Gympie that would hire his 206 out and would often just tag along on trips to if insurance was an issue. You log the time and he has something to do in retirement. Win/Win!

Thanks, the 206 is definitely is good one for my career. Makes it hard to say no.. but with only a marginally higher cruise than a 172, makes it hard to justify the hourly rate. $279 (124 knot cruise) Vs c206 for $391 (142 knot cruise) (TACHO pricing Redcliffe aero club)

Pice doesnt match the performance IMO. Ive seen Cirrus S22 rates cheaper then their c206 :confused:

If i can find some better pricing, i'd be keen.

Mooney or Bonanza :ok:

Are you on a 150hr course, or a 200 hr course?

If it's a 200hr course, get the absolute cheapest thing you can find, and hour build with it. I've been flying a 152 around because hours is hours.

For a 150hr course, ask one of your instructors if you can make this a solo navex, and take what they suggest.

Personally, I'd look a Cirrus. Not complex and fast(ish). But you will need to do conversion training. Given your hours you'd be looking at SR20 which has about the same speed as a C182.

The other options is a 172RG. Easy to be checked out on (assuming your training on a 172). (I have the impression it is just you so payload is not an issue.)

In terms of spending time at the destination, I have always worked on 2hrs flying per day away keeps the owner happy.

Hours
 

Get the hours... C150/2 :ok:

Why the hang-up with a/c speed which really will not make much difference, especially once you take into account t/o, landing, having a burger etc. The ETA difference is basically the time taken to drink another cup of coffee at Dubbo.
To put it into perspective. Let's assume you have the fuel and bladder capacity to fly YBAF-YPIR in one hit for a hare and tortoise exercise.
Distance = 976 NM
C206 - At 142kt, flight time = 5.58hrs
C172 - At 124kt, flight time = 6.5hrs
At 110kt, flight time = 7.43hrs

I would think a little extra time to rest and refresh at each stop will improve your safety factor. In that case there is really little difference to your ETA regardless of a/c.

i would go for a 182, or 206, but if your only flying yourself, aim for a 182.

For the Gen Y's it's all about going fast.

Unless you're flying around the world or perhaps Australia, the extra speed for the cost may not be anywhere near worth it.

Not many companies out there or private persons for that matter would let a fresh low hour PPL at the controls of their 206 let alone 210.

Cheers mate. Unfortunately i cant PM either (maybe because my account is new?). I have contacted a mod, hopefully they can sort it out. Look forward to chatting then :)

Completely agree in that scenario. But if it was possible to find something with 180kt cruise under $400, like an RV-7, then i think it could be worth it. maybe thats fantasy land tho.

But as some members have made me realise. Maybe this should be more about whats best for my career.

Very valid points. Will consider it. Im not sure what employers value more. Higher hours in a small aircraft. Or Less hours in an aircraft that is part of their fleet.

Great suggestion. I will definitely talk to them about it. I'll only be early stages CPL for when i was planning to do this trip, so maybe it wont fit training schedule..

Haha i wont deny it. I feel the need... The need for SPEED. :cool: Now what are F-14 Tomcats going for wet? :p

So to summarize the options:
150/2 (go slow build hours)
172 or PA28 (middle ground)
182 (more speed an power)
206 (good for future jobs little faster)
210 (good for jobs and fast)
RV-7 (or equivalent light fast kit plane)

Mooney or Bonanza (im not familiar with, apart form the Mooney has long range. not sure on pricing or practicality for work)

A C172 cruising @ 124kt. That's one very impressive aircraft!!!

My suggestion would be, as previously mentioned, a late model C182 with fixed gear. Heaps of payload, 145kt TAS and extra good range with full tanks. You might even be able to find a G1000 fitout. Most likely you'll need a leak before it needs a drink.

Kyle, What's the rush - Slow down and smell the roses! You have a need for good hours - not speed.

When you use a less 'capable' aircraft, it means you'll have to flight plan more carefully, the weather changes will be more numerous, and you'll gain more experience. In any case 142 for a 206, 124 for a 172, 180 for a T182RG?? ha,ha! No chance you can plan on these numbers. Use something tried and trusted that will give you a reliable TAS at a repeatable fuel burn.

As an owner of 12 aircraft, over a 40 year period, I'd never think of renting an aircraft out to someone who was low time, and I knew nothing about. You need to ask about, talk to owners, even ask them to fly with you and demonstrate your reliability, maybe do a few local flights in their aircraft. What you have planned is a big trip, and any private owner would have to think hard about renting even a simple C172 to a low timer for it.

happy days,

Certainly one very impressive C172

The problem is that you want a totally a new aircraft, the owner will want you to have some quality hours ( usually 10) in one before they will rent it to you - I suggest you take the trip in an aircraft similar to what you have been training in - i.e. if a warrior but you have a retract and csu rating then rent an Arrow. If you haven't done quite a few circuits in a cessna 182 you will find it doesnt take much effort to crunch the nose wheel down etc.

To take an aircraft on a long trip for a week or so you will need to find an organisation that has the relevant aircraft but is commercially quiet and needs the rental time. You will have to impress them with your airmanship and risk profile - if they like you it will be easy, but that usually means they know you.
Low hour PPL's are risky for the owners - you will need to demonstrate to them that you are entirely safe!. For me on my first few long trips away my own, I had to make a real effort to not cut corners, do all my weather checks and planning meticulously etc.

"that would be one long slow boring trip in a 172"
With almost a PPL and complaining about the possibility of a long trip in C172 being boring suggests you may be aiming for the wrong profession. With your level of experience "Excitement" will inevitably come your way - in aviation you don't have to go looking for it
Crossing the Pacific is a long boring trip if you are lucky. You will learn that boring is beautiful - if you are really bored you have probably overlooked something.

You might be well-served calculating how much a flight hour is worth to you (if you have any desire to build hours at all) and factoring that in.

EG at my aero club they had a 152 for XX and a warrior for xx+20%... the warrior is 20% quicker but that just means that I get fewer hours for the same dollars, or for the same trip.

Not sure if that is a fair statement. I LOVE flying, and I also love Driving sporty cars, but driving for hours on a straight highway for me gets boring, as with cruising on AP. I love hands on flying. Surely other airline pilots feel the same?

That doesnt mean im not excited about the tip. The idea of flying myself across the country i find amazingly exciting, and im sure when im cruising there will be many beautiful things to see. And flying to new airports is going to also be a great experience. For me its the take off, landings, and the safe completion of a trip that gives me a sense of satisfaction and enjoyment.

Your right, i have had some very gentle and amazingly rewarding flights gliding, and also during my training.

I guess its just ive driven this trip many times, and those long hours on the road suck. I guess this is why i first wanted to do this trip as fast as possible. But the advice in this thread has really helped me realise i should treat this as an opportunity to build hours and gain experience.

AreaRuleAce I'm still waiting for a mod to fix my PM, will send message you soon as its sorted :)