As an FSO, if I missed traffic, I was stood down, re-assessed and re-rated once my proficiency was deemed to be back up to par. Who carries the can if the baggage handler manning the Unicom misses traffic under Dick's new regime?

Wouldn't cost that much to train a Cagro operator up. Wouldn't take much to have a fiery do a met observers course, train him or her on Cagro. (Good luck getting one of them to sit in that little tower all shift doing it though, I'm tipping they'll tell you to fark off, better things to do).

And good luck finding someone to stump up with the insurance premium to cover these 'Cagro' operators. Cos when it goes tits up, it's gunna cost somebody some serious coin.

Change the liability laws in Australia and you might have a chance.

Folks,
Before you all start rushing of in every direction about liability and duty of care, I suggest you actually read some of the existing legislation on the subject.
Tootle pip!!

Leady, any chance you could point us in that direction? Post a link to legislation? Ta.

I just love it when the coalition sits to the right of the speaker.....:hmm:

No, the only reason Class G works for IFR is the big sky theory.

Class E in Australia has been implemented (deliberately or accidentally) to provide no benefit to anyone.

Class E is supposed to replace Class G, on the principle that aircraft operating in IMC should have ATC assistance to avoid each other. It is not intended as a replacement for Class C/D*.

When the decision was made that Class E will be implemented WITHOUT providing additional service to IFR, the point of the project disappeared. After that it became a process of finding places on the chart to put a bit of Class E, so someone can tick their "Class E Implementation" box.

*Although once you have a choice between C/D/E/G instead of just C/D/G you will probably find airspace that is class C only because it can't be G, which might be changed to E.

Hey guys wonder if anyone else has had the thought that it would be nice if the base of CTA was printed on Jepps and Dap's.
May not be so important for bug smashers but noticed a few times in high performance aircraft the "oops" question "When do we hit CTA?". Much scabbling for maps, sometimes hard to find especially on Jepps.

Geesus, you don't check that in your departure brief before you take off?? :ugh:

I can see now why some suggest E to the ground... :hmm:

Can anyone assist me with the radar coverage at Hervey Bay?

Does it drop down to the circuit area? If not what is the lower level of the coverage?

Ballina fire station.
 

It amazes me that someone would put a multi million dollar fire station at Ballina to pick up the wreckage of any perceived or otherwise crash when a tower that may prevent that crash would seem more prudent. I apologise if the following piece of prose has been posted before and may bore people to the point of suicide, but it is apt;


‘ Twas a dangerous cliff, as they freely confessed,
Though to walk near its crest was so pleasant,
But over its terrible edge there had slipped,
A duke and full many a peasant.
So the people said something would have to be done,
But their projects did not at all tally.
Some said, "Put a fence around the edge of the cliff,"
Some, "An ambulance down in the valley."
But the cry for the ambulance carried the day,
For it spread through the neighboring city,
A fence may be useful or not, it is true,
But each heart became moved with pity,
For those who slipped over that dangerous cliff;
And the dwellers on highway and alley
Gave pounds and gave pence not to put up a fence,
But an ambulance down in the valley.
Then an old sage remarked, "it’s a marvel to me
That people give far more attention
To repairing the results than to stopping the cause,
When they’d much better aim at prevention.
"Let us stop at its source all this hurt," cried he.
"Come, neighbors and friends, let us rally.
If the cliff we will fence, we might almost dispense
With the ambulance down in the valley.

Why is there the perception that the only thing the ARFF would respond to is a mid air collision? I certainly can't talk you into a safe landing/takeoff from the tower.

The truth is out there somewhere...

As a regular user of Ballina airport in all weather conditions, I absolutely agree with Norm's letter. Mostly empty airwaves....rare arrivals of 3 or more IFR aircraft in IMC .....

Here's the schedule for RPT into Ballina: http://ballinabyronairport.com.au/wp...h-June2015.pdf.

Reckon you need a full-time CAGRO or tower for that, Dick? Nonsense!

Self separation has worked fine here and at other CTAF airfields that have RPT - and if a bit of coordination with the other pilots does your head in when you fly your personal jet in with a highly experienced aviator as co-pilot, then I suggest you hold at a suitable altitude above it all until everyone else has landed, or divert to land at the Gold Coast and drive the hour down for everyone else's safety.

Bloggs - I would be very surprised if you were getting clearances when below 10K' on approach to YBNA. Onward clearances can wait until after you land.... In any case, if a single pilot IFR can monitor two frequencies, then a two crew unit with TCAS should be fine.

All Dick's sh!t stirring is going to do is drive up costs to all who use the Ballina airport to no safety advantage. As Dick often asks - where's the safety case? The local Aeroclub guys, who have spent a large amount of private money on their clubhouse on the field are a bit upset at the prospect of a tower - most of the long term members now fly RecAus and won't be able to get into the controlled airspace if it goes that way...

CAGRO or tower, whichever way it goes - you'll get thanks for nothing, Dick, from the GA community who use Ballina airport....the very GA pilots whom you profess to be supporting....

Ballina
 

So glad of the previous post. I agree. I learned to fly at Ballina and still go there occasionally. It's unusual to have more than two aircraft in the vicinity at any one time. You might get to four including a commercial operator. I don't understand what justified tax payers funding a multi million fire station.

The near miss with the metro liner and heli 2013was just that..a near miss accident. They happen all the time all day long..it life. a procedural radio error and error caught in time. Flying school have now beefed up their radio checks.


I have experienced commercial operator radio error...on the ground they are on area I guess and not listening to ctaf. No big problem just deal with it with appropriate caution.


Dick..perusing this ifr to ground will only result in a d tower at Ballina and kill off the local ga a lot more a lot quicker. More unjustified tax payer funding. Over regulation is way more of a problem than this in killing off ga, but it doesn't need a tower at Ballina to make it worse.

In the days of Department of Transport if a jet service went to any destination it would automatically require a tower. I think it was when East West decided to operate F28s into Albury and Wagga is when they got their towers. I also think it was a helicopter pilot of note that decried the waste of taxpayers money in putting expensive infrastructure into regional airports just because a jet operated into these ports once a day. Apparently jets operated into regional airports in the US and they didn't need a tower.

I actually don't disagree with the idea of a Tower at Ballina and as Wagga,Albury and Tamworth have shown they are still thriving as airports. What I disagree with is the idea that the money needs to be spent on a fire station first.

As for this idea:

:ugh:

Lookleft
You are correct. As CAA Chairman I introduced the FAA Establishment and Disestablishment formula for Class D towers. This resulted in a number of towers closing, such as Wagga and Mt Isa. My problem with the situation at Ballina is once again the safety expenditure is being reversed. Instead of spending money on mitigating the chance of an accident, they have actually spent the money on a fire service that will pull people out of a burning wreck. Why not put in a Unicom first of all? If run correctly on the American and Canadian model, the cost will be zero. Then why not drop the Class E airspace down to a lower level? That, in fact, is a recommendation from the last CASA Safety Study. The cost is very small.

Personally I am completely opposed to the huge waste of money for a fire station at Ballina. It is totally ridiculous and a huge misallocation of resources. However, seeing a fire station exists and there are seventeen firemen on the payroll, why not at least provide a Unicom service in the way they do in the USA? As I have mentioned, the cost is zero and there will be a marked safety improvement.

A near miss as opposed to a near hit!

It would seem that we are in complete agreement on this Dick. I am not opposed to the idea of a Unicom either, it seems to work at AYQ.

Frank-what happened at Sunny Coast between the Airbus and the helicopter was definitely a near hit!:ok:

Re " In the days of Department of Transport if a jet service went to any destination it would automatically require a tower "

And...."Lookleft
You are correct"

Hey Dick (you agreed with him) and 'LL'......naughty naughty..... B/S personified!!!

I worked for many years at locations like Kalgoorlie, and Derby - "Derbs" - which 'looked after 'Broome' as well as 'Derbs', as you are very well aware - you actually visited us once.
You did not have to ask for a 'clearance' to 'Derbs' - you got 'AFIZ' service.

And each of those had JET RPT services.....as did Geraldton, Carnarvon, Learmonth, Karratha, Hedland, Kunners, etc etc

And, NONE of those had a 'tower'!
Some did, then didn't, then when Hedland Council funded it, did, then didn't again when it was found to be too expensive, then.....who knows....!!

We used to manage those from the FSU at the location. Or, in the case of Broome, it used to be managed from 'Derbs' long after the Broome FSU was closed. (Remote AFIZ)....

Then after the 'Big Cut' we managed these 'remote' AFIZs from Perth FSC...

Tower..??WOT Tower..?? Yeah, I am aware that some of these places have a 'Tower' again.....as to WHO is paying for it / them...?? Well, with NO 'Flight Service' or CAGRO, 'somebody' thought that they just 'had' to have 'something'....

In the 70's when I flew 'full time' out of Hedland, there were aeroplanes everywhere in the Pilbara.
Sometimes I was 'no 3 to land'......
Not so many now!

Keep it cleen now.....

No Cheers :sad:

Thanx again for......