PPRuNe Forums - MORE EVIDENCE OF THE “IRON RING”

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- - MORE EVIDENCE OF THE “IRON RING” (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/560936-more-evidence-iron-ring.html)

Oz,
Wrong, not "just because of the datalink".

As an ADS-B, the UAT (or VDL-4) has exactly the same ATC utility as 1090ES, and both the forgoing do NOT have the limitations of 1090ES, already becoming evident (as clearly forecast by FAA/Mitre Corp.many tears ago -- at least 15).

As I know, and I think you know, no major supplier has offered a TCAS 11 using the long available standard for incorporating ADS-B IN --- because it provides no additional functionality over TCAS 11 without ADS-B. Put another way, why pay money for nothing.

Quote:

Your preferred position is and always has been no form of surveillance for GA PVT VFR!

Correct (in other than Class B and up airspace) because there is absolutely no cost /benefit justification for such surveillance, in air safety or any other terms.

Quote:

1090ES operates outside ground station coverage in real time with SSR and TCAS

An interesting statement, the first part is only true if there is somewhere where there is SSR coverage but no ADS-B coverage, the second is only a TCAS11 transponder function, nothing to do with ADS-B --- because the ADS-B capability is not being used for TCAS 11 -- see above.

As we now clearly know, ICAO and FAA got it right in the first place, and the "quick, cheap and easy" 1090ES "solution" that was the late entry by the major electronics manufacturers (who didn't control any of the UAT/VDL patents) and cash strapped airlines at the time, who were gullible enough to believe the claims of the capital cost advantages of 1090ES, is costing big time, compared with a cost of a stand alone UAT system --- which brought with it a broadband data link, which airlines have now had to fund and fit anyway, as a separate item

Effectively, airlines have been faced with all the costs of fitting 1090ES AND the equivalent of UAT.

What a great win ???

Tootle pip!!

No Leadie, you are wrong..again!

UAT requires a transponder to be fitted as well....no transponder no TCAS. No ground station no see by SSR!

ADS-B 1090ES is already a mode S transponder. The TCAS doesn't see the squitter it sees the mode S.

UAT and 1090ES are separate and incompatible. Well, to be precise separate racking. UAT requires a lot of boxes to facilitate and uplink as well as secure lines back to the TRACON in each area to facilitate the traffic transmissions as well as the other data.

UAT was designed by MITRE as a datalink, first and foremost before there was a need for separation purposes.

There is no data uplink with 1090ES nor is there a need for one.

I would like to know the number and age of any airline that doesn't meet the requirement. The only people having a whing are owners of ten year old or older bizjets that fly AIRINC gear that costs a motza to update.

Leadsled, at this point you should be applying your hangar sized brain to ensuring AirServices actually provide the coverage their maps say they do.