Any excuse for ADF bashing.:rolleyes:

Classic example today, heading North from Sydney, stuck at low level because the RAAF had blocked all the airspace from Willy to Dubbo.
Fuel burn was twice what it should have been so the end result my company made no money for the day, and the Hunter valley received a whole lot more greenhouse gasses than it should have.

The taxes my company pays, and the taxes I pay are used to fund these testosterone fuelled people to play their games in the middle of the main North South civilian air corridor.

There are civilian deaths that have occurred because of this, and there will be more in the future until Australia shrugs off its third world mentality.

I always thought that our military were subservient to the peoples parliament, if that is not true then we live in a military dictatorship, much like North Korea.

Today.... Tower went de-active at about 1700 and an R44 was flyin over the airfield about 10 minutes later broadcasting on the CTAF about 10 minutes later without a care in the world.

I'm going to suggest that the line about civil aircraft not being allowed blah blah blah relates to during active tower hours and not a blanket no

Smart arse comments like this only encourage people to vote in such a way that you'll lose your precious toys.

If the current mob think so little of you that they dock your pay think what the other mob might do.

"Bitter you can't play"?

Don't think so mate, I always thought I was born too late.

I got my rocks off flying a spitfire that my Dad owned and flew.

His contempories mixed it up in combat.

They didn't sit above the flak dropping million Dollar bombs to destroy $250 hiluxes.

I have no issue with the RAAF, they have their job to do, but they are funded by civilians, therefore they should recognize and accept that if civilians are economically compromised by their activities there is a danger that their activities eventually will be compromised.

Australian airspace management is unique to Australia, separation of military and civilian traffic is unique to Australia. Is there nothing to be learnt from the way the rest of the world does things??

Yes in the same way my kids toys are bought by me but played with by them.
If they do the wrong thing once too often they lose them. ie bike left in the driveway where I want to drive.

Confiscate Defence capability because you don't get the airspace access you want.

Well, that's the stupidest thing I'll read this week.

No need to hide them. Just cut the funding and see how much flying they do then.

A suitable time in the naughty corner would be until they realize they are NOT gods-just spoiled brats who need to learn to share airspace with those who pay for their own toys.

Are you sure it's not the taxes the defence types pay that pays for defence? You're an idiot.

The don

Any how many Jet drivers have you actually met?

Junior asks
Quite a few actually. I fail to understand what these meetings have to do with the question posed so siccinctly by Thorn Bird

I'm embarrassed by the poor display here by "apparent" members of the ADF.
Pretty silly comment, mate, paints a pretty poor picture of your attitude.
Oh, come on.
For the civvies partaking or reading here, please don't tar us all with the same brush.
Still, this:
is similarly inaccurate and immature.
Seriously guys, some of you need to do some growing up.
I've seen both sides of the fence and I've witnessed mil airspace active when it didn't need to be and I think improvements can be made - can't a balanced discussion be had?

Spot on Joseph:ok:

Thorn Bird,

As a suggestion you could try taking up your grievance with / via your RAPAC
Member.
These issues do get raised from time to time, and 'sometimes' a compromise can be arranged......but....alas, not always..!

Cheers:ok:

It's fair enough to complain, but keep it realistic. These people (probably a few oestrogen fuelled ones too) are generally working very hard to get to and maintain professional standards that all taxpayers, civil and military, should expect of our air force front liners, not playing games. They need a lot of airspace, and unless the taxpayer wants to stump up multi billions to move the infrastructure somewhere else, there will be some inconvenience for some people sometimes.

Nobody wants to keep airspace active for longer than it needs to be, and it changes over time anyway (witness the Pearce 50 mile circle 30 years ago that's now a much smaller funny shaped thing because they've bent over backwards to accommodate civil traffic, or the East Sale airspace that closes when not in use and has transit lanes so people can get through it easily).

Who says how much they "need", other than "them"?

Who is it that has decided that Australia's single-digit operations need more airspace than the triple-digit operations in other countries?

I can understand the argument that Australia has so few delicate and expensive flying ADF assets that it can't afford to risk them coming near anyone else in the sky, but jeeez, don't insult us with "safety" arguments. :=

It's not an insult, mate, it's just a function of the speed, vertical manoeuvring and all that other knuck stuff they do which needs clear airspace.

Come up with a cost effective alternative to moving the whole setup, fine.

But AOTW, the whole point is the EU and US do the SAME maneuvering in tighter airspace. How do they manage?

Maybe the answer is to send our fast jet blokes overseas for their training so they can learn to operate in tight spaces. It's win win really. They'd end up better pilots and the rest of us wouldn't be stuffed around with endless restricted areas.

You get better pilots from training in airspace where they can realistically simulate operational realities.

It's a way a small Air Force can train to a high standard.