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-   -   Basic Gas Turbine under part 61 (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/548434-basic-gas-turbine-under-part-61-a.html)

50 50 29th Sep 2014 06:08

Basic Gas Turbine under part 61
I'm lead to believe that there is now a BGT endorsement that is seperate from a type rating.

For example, if you want a type rating in a C208 the ground theory component used to be part of that rating. Now apparently this is separate, and required before you commence the type rating.

Does anyone know what is required and who can provide this endorsement?

Neville Nobody 29th Sep 2014 07:36

Back to the future, when did they get rid of the BGT exam, 1995?

ForkTailedDrKiller 29th Sep 2014 07:38

Bring back the BGT exam, I say - provided my 90+% passing grade from 20 years ago is still valid! :E

Dr :8

Pinky the pilot 29th Sep 2014 09:08

Ah yes, the old BGT exam.:ooh:

Came in four versions, A B C and D. Version A being the easiest and D the hardest. Even LAMES had been known to fail the D version.:eek:

Guess which version I got the day I sat it?:{

The TAFE lecturer for all CPL subjects sat the exam as well. He got the D version also.

And yes, he failed it too!:sad:

thorn bird 29th Sep 2014 11:17

I can one up you Pinky.

Know an ex Rolls Royce engineer had three goes and couldn't pass it.
He used to design gas turbines!!

Remember folks, everything old is new again!!

Guess next year they'll bring in credit card licenses....with biometric data and a photo which could replace the ASIC card.

Wow what a great idea, wonder who thought of that?

Hey come on guys they bought back Flight service didn't they!! well at Port headland,...but its a start!!

MakeItHappenCaptain 29th Sep 2014 11:47

Guess next year they'll bring in credit card licenses....with biometric data and a photo which could replace the ASIC card.
How do overseas organisations interpret the data on the card?
eg, Hello Mr Gulftream Captain Fourbars...I'm from the FAA and here to help...do you have your license handy?
Unless CASA hands out readers to all that need them...

The old CASA card licenses weren't ICAO compliant. That's why they went to paper last time.

5-in-50 29th Sep 2014 12:51

If you look up the Part 61 MOS (manual of standards), in the schedule of CASA administered CyberExams, you will not find BGT.

This means that it's up to the training organisation / endorser to ensure they've delivered the BGT syllabus content outlined in the MOS and proven that the student has retained it, usually by means of in-house exam.

I can imagine most training organisations will integrate their BGT MOS content into their aircraft endorsement process. (ground component, flight component, check component)

Draggertail 29th Sep 2014 13:12

BGT is a design feature endorsement so can be given by an instructor with that endorsement independent of 141/142 organizations. I would have thought that training for a C208 would include BGT if not already held.

Pinky the pilot 29th Sep 2014 16:49

Know an ex Rolls Royce engineer had three goes and couldn't pass it.
He used to design gas turbines!!
Don't happen to know offhand just what he thought about that, do you? :}

Pinky the pilot 30th Sep 2014 03:47

you wouldn't happen to have the notes from the TAFE BGT course would you?
Struth!!:ooh: I reckon I might have, but finding them.....:eek:

Give me a week or two.:hmm:

hiwaytohell 30th Sep 2014 04:57

Know an ex Rolls Royce engineer had three goes and couldn't pass it.
He used to design gas turbines!!
Don't happen to know offhand just what he thought about that, do you? :}
Too much knowledge!

I knew a few engineers who also had a lot of trouble with the old pilot BGT. Basically over thinking the questions. I seem to recall the governor questions were a real trap.

thorn bird 30th Sep 2014 05:58

The BGT course is just the start of the flood of approvals which Part 61 will require.

The MOS is about as easy to read and understand as a book on qantum Physics would be to a four year old, so each approval will take a long time arguing with various FOI's about whats Kosher and whats not, and therefore a lot of hours charged at $160 an hour.

Is this the start of CAsA getting out of the exam business altogether??
Each flying school with exam syllibi and teaching course for everything.

Be interesting..... HR man " Oh you have a Basair ATPL, sorry we only recognise the Essendon aeroclub ATPL"

The sad thing is the standard would probably go up.

Horatio Leafblower 30th Sep 2014 06:11

Thorn Bird,

Whats the diff between getting a CSU endorsement when you get into a C182 and getting a BGT endo when you step up to a C208 or a PAC750?

Where is this flood of new approval requirements going to come from? :confused:

Why is the MOS so hard to read and understand, when it is really only an expension of the Day VFR Syllabus that flying schools have been working with since (roughly) 2001?

I just looked out the window and the sky hasn't fallen yet. :eek:

Draggertail 30th Sep 2014 06:49

The C208 does not require a type rating it requires "flight training and a flight review to exercising the privileges of the single-engine aeroplane class rating in this aircraft (See section 23, and CASR 61.062.)"

See also schedule 12 of CASA 186/14 - Prescribed aircraft, ratings and variants for CASR Part 61 Instrument 2014

thorn bird 30th Sep 2014 12:01

"Multi engine Land"
Simple, nobody in any doubt what it means or what is required...YES.
Are aircraft falling out of the sky, NO..do they have a better safety record than us YES...so why do we have to deal with this ambiguous costly Bullsh..t.
Does BGT as a course apply anywhere else in the world??
What happens when someone turns up with a foreign License endorsed with a turbine, with many thousands of hours experience on turbines wanting to convert??
Is a jet engine any more complicated than a piston??
Its a crock of sh..t designed to make money for CAsA.

50 50 30th Sep 2014 14:29

Straight from the Flight Training and Testing Office.
C208 does not require a type rating, falls under single engine below 5700kg.
The new regulation is the same as the old one, just reworded.
No new training requirements.
Life carries on as normal.
Draggertail has it right.
I was as confused as everyone else.

thorn bird 1st Oct 2014 08:17

Question for the legal pundits.

Under the Trans Tasman agreement, if someone went to NZ, did an endorsement, type rating, whatever you want to call it, would this be accepted in OZ?

Draggertail 1st Oct 2014 10:52

Quote "The second step will be: As the C208 is listed as a 'Class-rated aircraft that require training and a flight review,' undertake this training and flight review with an instructor (this MUST be done through the auspices of a part 141/2 flight training establishment??)"

Jack, not too sure about the 141/2 requirement. 61.1230 prescribes a penalty if an instructor conducting a flight review does not make and keep a record of the flight review. This implies a flight review can be conducted independently of 141/2.

training wheels 1st Oct 2014 16:58

It's interesting that the form for transferring your license to the new Part 61 license, does not ask for whether you have passes in a BGT theory course or not. Those who already fly turbine powered aircraft only need to tick the box Gas Turbine Engine in the Design Features section, and are required to provided evidence in the form of;

* Certified true copies of logbook pages showing entries for an aircraft flown that has the Design Features applied for

* Certified true copy of an aircraft rating on a foreign licence if applicable

* Certified true copy of training records for an aircraft with Design Features applied for

Here is the form required: Part61-9TX

Des Dimona 3rd Oct 2014 04:03

I think you'll find that if you already have a turbine endorsement on your existing Australian CAR 5 licence, it will transfer to your Part 61 licence along with the GTE included.

Anyway - that's what is happening in large organisations.

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