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-   -   ASIC here to stay! (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/535601-asic-here-stay.html)

OZBUSDRIVER 8th Mar 2014 22:53

ASIC here to stay!
 
From the AG's website-

The ASIC scheme aims to reduce the risk of unlawful interference with aviation, not just terrorism.
The intent of the system has morphed into preventing a far lesser risk to human life. For the sake of a few crims that accessed the freight areas of the industry another layer of criminal checks have been added. A perusal of AAT files shows that having a criminal record directly related to the subject..drug dealing and trafficking is no bar to holding an asic...so why the change to the posture?

Whilst the threat of terrorism would eventually wain....criminality will ALWAYS be with us.

cattletruck 9th Mar 2014 00:48

I bet if they were cheaper to renew the whole farcical scheme would be redacted in favour of common sense.

But someone is making a nice little earner out of it so it stays.

peterc005 9th Mar 2014 01:09

The ASICs wouldn't be so painful if there was a five or ten year renewal.

Two years is just too short.

Dark Knight 9th Mar 2014 03:07

Cocaine smuggler gets green light for access to Moorabbin airport

A CONVICTED drug smuggler has won the right of access to restricted areas of Moorabbin airport in his work as a courier driver for an airfreight company.

Dejan Maksimovic was identified by the federal police as working in the secure areas after being released from a six-year prison sentence for importing cocaine.

The Department of Infrastructure and Transport wanted a revocation of Maksimovicís access to secure areas through his employer, Tasfast Airfreight, because of his multiple drug convictions.

Maksimovc was convicted in 1997 of cultivating cannabis but a six-month jail term was suspended.

In 2006, the 39-year-old was convicted of importing 780 grams of cocaine and jailed for seven years by a judge who said he was motivated by financial gain and had given no hint of remorse or acknowledgment of wrongdoing.

Maksimovic appealed against his airport ban to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, and has now been granted a limited Aviation Security Identification Card.

The tribunal ruled that because of his drug convictions it had decided Mr Maksimovic should not have access to the secure areas of all airports and, in particular, he should not have access to the secure areas of international airports.

His limited security clearance gives him access to restricted areas only at Moorabbin Airport and only while he is an employee of Tasfast Airfreight.
Tasfast told the AAT he was a valued employee with a strong work ethic.
The pass was granted in part so Maksimovic, who has a pilotís licence, can develop his career and perhaps ultimately be considered for a commercial pilot position.

No Cookies | Herald Sun

Makes a mockery of the whole process and value of the ASIC.

Time to scrap the whole thing??

Aussie Bob 9th Mar 2014 05:24


His limited security clearance gives him access to restricted areas only at Moorabbin Airport and only while he is an employee of Tasfast Airfreight.
Tasfast told the AAT he was a valued employee with a strong work ethic.
The pass was granted in part so Maksimovic, who has a pilot’s licence, can develop his career and perhaps ultimately be considered for a commercial pilot position.
What are you suggesting Wally? Sack the guy, make him unemployable and a perhaps re-offender, or give him a chance? Perhaps the AAT made the correct decision. I would say give him a go myself.


Amazing we are far too lenient in this country a country now mostly led by softies, any wonder we are in the mess we are in!:ugh:

I would tend towards a fair go. Perhaps you could also explain the mess we are in? Compared to who? Still the lucky country around here.

Dark Knight 9th Mar 2014 06:55

Wondering if AB actually has an ASIC and had to go through all the onerous procedures to obtain one?


who has a pilotís licence, can develop his career and perhaps ultimately be considered for a commercial pilot position
why then do we have to do police and securtiy checks?

Perhaps the same could be said of all the Saudis, etc, who gained some flying experience so perhaps at a later date they could have been considered for a commercial flying position?

Similarly, to enable one to do some volutary work within the education system helping to improve education equipment for schools & TAFES one had to have police and character checks to obtain a piece of paper enabling one to do this.

All this proved was that, that nice Uncle Bobby had a peice of paper enabling him to offer a knee to sit on whilst he proffered something nice to suck on!

These checks, bits of paper are designed to eliminate those of questionable character and motives which, if they cannot do this then they should be removed.

Aussie Bob 9th Mar 2014 07:49


Wondering if AB actually has an ASIC and had to go through all the onerous procedures to obtain one?
Yes, I do. And as Wally pointed out, its only an opinion. The whole ASIC card debacle sucks. And for once I agree with peterc005, if we have to have em, how about at least 5 years? I just renewed my drivers license for that long.

Andy_RR 9th Mar 2014 09:21


Originally Posted by OZBUSDRIVER (Post 8360552)
From the AG's website-

The ASIC scheme aims to reduce the risk of unlawful interference with aviation, not just terrorism.

Rather than lamenting this, shouldn't the aviation community be demanding the AG demonstrate that it is achieving these aims and in a cost-effective manner...?

YPJT 9th Mar 2014 10:44

There is currently a consultation process underway which is examining proposed changes to eligibility criteria, as discussed above, as well as the ID requirements to be satisfied when applying. Further details here:
Government response to the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Law Enforcement


Who the f..k is representing pilots and in particular GA? Unless someone steps up you might as well resign yourself to the fact that you were prepared to take what the regulator dished out. The new federal minister is already on record saying words to the effect that he does not want to see increased bureaucracy or legislation that is going to impose financial or administrative burdens on industry.

I would suggest contacting Aviation Security Branch but a coordinated approach will probably achieve more than individual gripes with narrow agendas.
Aviation Security Branch

Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development
GPO Box 594
CANBERRA ACT 2601
AUSTRALIA

Telephone:

1300 307 288 or +61 2 6274 8187 for overseas calls
(airlines/airports and emergenciesó24 hours)
+61 2 6274 7201 (air cargo agents)

Facsimile:

+61 2 6274 6089 (general)
+61 2 6274 6012 (air cargo agents)

Email:
[email protected] (general)


Wally and others who think processing, issuing, recording and recovering ASICs is a system that makes money I can assure you from experience that is not the case. The ASIC may not be perfect, no system ever would be.

bankrunner 9th Mar 2014 11:09

Contrary to popular belief, the ASIC check as it currently stands is not a general criminal background check; it's a security check. This means ASIO checks their database to see if the applicant is already known to be of "security" interest, according to the very narrow ASIO Act 1979 definition of security:


security means:
(a) the protection of, and of the people of, the Commonwealth and the several States and Territories from:
(i) espionage;
(ii) sabotage;
(iii) politically motivated violence;
(iv) promotion of communal violence;
(v) attacks on Australia’s defence system; or
(vi) acts of foreign interference;
whether directed from, or committed within, Australia or not; and
(aa) the protection of Australia’s territorial and border integrity from serious threats; and
(b) the carrying out of Australia’s responsibilities to any foreign country in relation to a matter mentioned in any of the subparagraphs of paragraph (a) or the matter mentioned in paragraph (aa).
The Aviation Security Branch is made up of the very individuals who designed and implemented the ASIC scam in the first place.

If you want the system scrapped, complaining to them isn't going to do you much good. If you want the entry criteria tightned up, you might get somewhere.

If you want to see ASCIs gone, your best bet is to raise the issue constantly and repeatedly with potentially sympathetic pollies, such as Xenophon.

SgtBundy 9th Mar 2014 11:15


What are you suggesting Wally? Sack the guy, make him unemployable and a perhaps re-offender, or give him a chance? Perhaps the AAT made the correct decision. I would say give him a go myself.
The guy has been convicted of drug smuggling and growing his own, and the job he chooses to return to is a courier needing access to restricted areas? Not only that but he has to appeal to ensure he gets that restricted access, surely he could just operate other routes/areas?

Sure he should be given a chance, at another career. There are plenty of jobs that can't happen because of a criminal record - and this should be one of them.

YPJT 9th Mar 2014 13:01

Bank runner, ASIO is one of a number of bodies that AUSCHECK uses to carry out the background check. Crimtrack checks other convictions with state and federal authorities. The aviation security relevant offences are listed in Regulation 6.01(1) of the ATSRs.

Andy_P 9th Mar 2014 13:01

I am going to pipe in here, and admit I have a criminal history that is not all that good. I have an ASIC. Fortunately for me, there is a statute limit of 10 years on criminal convictions here in Australia, and if you have not broken any laws in the last 10 years no one can hold it against you. Can a crim be reformed? Yup, I am a living example. I cant even tell a simple lie these days. I learned my lesson. I hold several security clearances now (not in aviation) and I would never set a foot wrong. Its taken me a lot of time to re-earn that trust, and I am not going to screw that up now. Never...

When you get your ASIC, you would have read (maybe not) all the tripe about them being able to revoke it if you are convicted of an offence. If this guy is clean, and will behave then he is fine. If he breaks the law again, his ASIC will be cancelled. I work closely with some a couple of government departments with regards to similar stuff, and I can assure you that they are well aware of what is going on.

YPJT 9th Mar 2014 13:21

Andy P, good points mate. Certain convictions that are old can be classified as being spent. One of the conditions on that system though is that you could not have been sentenced to imprisonment more than 30 months. There was also the ability for the secretary to issue a discretionary ASIC to persons who have an adverse criminal history. The Feds are not concerned with people who have screwed up in the past and can demonstrate they are unlikely to commit further offences.
We are getting away from the issue here though. There are moves afoot that, if approved, will make the ASIC application and renewal process more onerous. So my question is WHO is going to represent you? Airlines, Airports, unions etc are involved in the consultation process already.

Centaurus 9th Mar 2014 13:36


Whilst the threat of terrorism would eventually wain
I wish you were right. Bur suspicions regarding the sudden disappearance of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777, indicates terrorism is still likely?

cattletruck 9th Mar 2014 13:55


There are moves afoot that, if approved, will make the ASIC application and renewal process more onerous. So my question is WHO is going to represent you? Airlines, Airports, unions...
The cost of renewal would be a tax/business deduction for the above, pity the private pilot who is not affiliated with any of them.

I wouldn't be too bothered if it was cheaper, but having dealt with ASIO a few times I reckon for the average jo those security databases are repeatedly giving an incomplete picture with lots of holes in the data.

If you're not a person of interest then you shouldn't have to prove that to yourself every 2 years out of your own pocket.

dubbleyew eight 9th Mar 2014 14:19

I wouldn't be too sure that this asic and casa regs embuggeration isn't actually deliberate.

I'm told that the minister and his office have the heebies at the thought of what private aviation could mean in terms of security.

the dimwits appear to be becoming afraid of the dark.

I'm told that all the embuggeration is actually a deliberate ploy to make aviation non viable for most to keep a lid on it while appearing to be innocent victims of a runaway bureaucracy.

minuscule truss, if what I'm told is true, you're a total incompetent.
how is australia going to survive if you shut down all of industry out of fear that it might hurt. you're shaping up to be a total tosser warren.

OZBUSDRIVER 9th Mar 2014 21:24

YPJT is right. Not only another layer of criminal checks but another layer of visual identification wrt your physical person and your documents!

The whole process is fluid. Before, if you had an adverse report you were scrubbed! End of story! No correspondence entered into! Now it would appear you can present to the AAT and plea your case successfully. Individually, not a bad outcome if you have turned over a new leaf...but...a complete about-face as to the original intent.

As for the changes to include criminality....why allow the appeal process at all?

EDIT to add...recommendation 22 could be an issue. Costs will escalate if all gov controlled.

Arnold E 10th Mar 2014 00:18


you're shaping up to be a total tosser warren.
And you were expecting something different ?????

dubbleyew eight 10th Mar 2014 02:05

well I was prepared to give truss the benefit of the doubt since he is a fairly straight shooter. it seems that once a security briefing is given to the ministers all common sense vanishes.

decades ago on an overseas exercise we were given all manner of briefings about tropical diseases, the locals, all sorts of things. all tending to lead to a similar level of apprehension as we see in the minister.
decades later and many trips overseas I have realised that the security briefings we had were all utter bullshit.

one of the things that governments need to do is dismantle all the paranoia mechanisms. has any of australia's overseas spying ever actually delivered a benefit to the country? I doubt it.

maybe one day soon Truss will realise that his briefings are all just playing on his fears and are largely baseless bullshit.

megan 18th Mar 2016 13:22

A story I find interesting.

Friend has just received a please explain a few days ago as to why he didn't return his old ASIC upon renewal, now get this, in 2008!!!!! It's taken the bureaucrats eight years to realise that they have an unaccounted for ASIC they know not where. Has to fill out a stat dec blah, blah. Renewals since then to today have gone through no problem.

I've never held, or even applied, for an ASIC, but what should turn up in the mail box (about eight years ago) from Merimbula. You guessed, an ASIC, but the address name was someone I'd never heard of, but had my address. These fools have any idea what they're doing?

BEACH KING 18th Mar 2016 13:52

Why do you need to renew an ASIC every 2 years? What a joke.
And why do you need to provide a certified copy of your Birth Certificate EVERY 2 years to renew?
How the hell do you get born again every 2 years!

josephfeatherweight 18th Mar 2016 13:54

Yes, the renewal every two years is a pain in the proverbial...
I don't understand why I have to prove who I am every two years - the ASIC team know me, they gave me one of their special cards two years ago?!?!?
Maybe it's the $200.50 - that's always money well spent! T0ssers!

Arm out the window 19th Mar 2016 08:58

When I applied for my original ASIC when they first came in, I sent off the certified copies of everything to CASA, no action for months, chased up through the system numerous times with a different answer each time - finally pinned them down to admitting my stuff had been lost somewhere between them and the security checkers, they didn't know where it was and I would have to resubmit the lot.

Having no option, I did that and 'successfully' got my ASIC, but there was not a squeak of apology out of CASA or any mention of where my original bundle of identifying documentation might be.

Probably in Nigeria now! What a great scheme it's been.

YPJT 19th Mar 2016 09:33

CASA proved themselves time and again to be the most inept issuing body ever to be given ASIC issuing approval. Avoid at all costs.

AOTW, there was anecdotal evidence in the early days of a whole heap of CASA issued ASICs in envelopes stuffed into a broom cupboard in the Perth office. It was then they realised they were not up to the task.

Lead Balloon 19th Mar 2016 09:57

It's a very effective financial security system for aviation administrators and the hangers on in the security system in Australia. :ok:

YPJT 19th Mar 2016 10:29

given the costs associated with AUSCHECK clearances, card producing materials, postage and time following up incorrectly or incomplete applications I very much doubt anyone is making a killing on these things. The reason a lot of organisations hang onto their IB approval is that it is more cost effective and convenient to do it yourself.

Lead Balloon 19th Mar 2016 11:47

Nobody said they were making "a killing". They are making a "living".

I, like many Australians, would like to make a "living".

Great if you can make a living out of being a bloated leach on all of this "security" stuff. :ok:

YPJT 20th Mar 2016 05:13

Well in that case you could apply to be:
An ASIC issuing body,
Aviation Screening Officer,
Airport security manager,
OTS inspector
The sky's the limit so fill ya boots:ok:


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