That's all well and good Porter (I'm not arguing the costs mentioned) but how is that related to the airspace model we currently use? Dick wants people to believe the changes he wants introduced are going to come without a cost to industry and won't require extra controllers. If nothing else where is the money for the training going to come from?

I'm glad to see that GA is also change resistant :E

In the case of a friend of mine, well known school, the answer was a $32,000 second mortgage on the house, to equip two aircraft.
The cost is horrendous, the benefit is nil.
Tootle pip!!

Exactly Leadie, the CAsA cost benefit analysis.
The cost is ours, the benefits are theirs.

$16,000.00 per aircraft?

Care to fill us plebs in on the work order and purchase list, shouldn't be a state secret?

No ADSB
 

I have simply dropped our aircraft to NVFR. It will not stop me doing GPS Arrivals OCTA if I need to. Just another example of Australia trying to go it alone and AOPA tugging the forelock to CASA and AsA.

Awesome, can you text me when you are doing this, I may need traffic on you when we're both in IMC.

Oz,
I will ask, but I believe the aircraft already had a C145 or 146 source available. They were identical aeroplanes, this should have minimized the costs of the engineering orders, load analysis and all those sort of things that add $$$$$ thousands to this sort of job.

Thorn Bird,
Nil benefit is guaranteed in this case, they are normally operating in an area and below levels where any ADS-B return is not on the screens of the controllers they are talking to, just their Mode C returns.

This just adds insult to (financial) injury.

Tootle pip!!

No worries Porter, I will still be on the radio, just in very special VFR ��

Oh, and the quote to upgrade, about $3500 for a compatible transponder, another $8000 for a WAAS GPS plus fitting (cos my non WAAS 430 is no good, even though we don't have WAAS). So $16,000 sounds about right.

Mr Brewster....the magic acronym is not WAAS, it is FDE!

Methinks people are getting confused on what is actually required and what is candy. The requirement is FDE, the supply of that requirment need only be a blind GPS, purely to feed only the transponder.

As a navigator the 129 version 430 is still good. Did you really need to spend the money on a new 430? Did you look at All the alternatives, Mr Brewster?

This is where the argument was blurred a decade ago. Pilots were sold on the idea of a kick arse navigator. AirServices only wanted proof that your unit was excluding dud signals...they do not care what box supplies that information.

Clearedtoenter,
Just as well we have sooo much good weather, have topos handy, and recalibrate your fickle finger of fate ---- if you can remember how to map read and do a bit of old fashioned DR.
Nobody smokes anymore, so no more 1:1,000,000 matchbox.
Remember how to read a B-20 even. (always preferred P-7s myself, still got an almost new one in a box somewhere).
And don't forget, when you are flying IFRRR (I Follow Roads, Rivers and Railway lines) keep right.
That wonderful Can'tbra cost/benefit, your cost, they benefit.
Tootle pip!!

CTR, TSO C145/146 is WAAS. As part of the TSO is Fault Detection and Exclusion. This is the bit AirServices is interested in. The NUC (or is it NIC) gives an integrity signal that it is using good data. Good data means integrity of the position, therefore maintain the separation standard.

My post on the C129 gear was prior to hearing of a rumour. Three ground station uplinks are being installed in Perth Brisbane and Melbourne...pointing at the MTSAT...now why would that be happening?

Well the guy who quoted (on GC) said my 430 was no good and I needed another one.

Way too much to pay for zero benefit. So super special VFR it is :O

Brewster, not sure how much you're interested in the facts where they may conflict with your argument, but here goes anyway:

1. Garmin will upgrade (and fix everything else) on your non-WAAS 430 to make it WAAS. From their website:

Otherwise you can stay 129 compliant and buy a separate postion source such as the Freeflight 1201 - but that's going to cost you not much less than getting a TSO'd GPS.

2. A KT74 transponder is about $3500 (maybe a bit more with the exchange rate) but there are cheaper ones at about $2500 USD (Trig TT31).

So at a cost of $0 for the GPS changeover (*I'll qualify that by saying you need to have the right GPS antenna cable*) and a cost we paid of $1500 AUD installation (including an engineering order) on a Lance, you can do the whole job for just about than half of your $16k.

You still have the problem of finding alternates with only one GPS once all the aids are gone, that I can't help you with beyond saying that in any lighty, fuel reserves the nearest equiped aerodrome for most of the inhabited part of the continent still won't be unreasonable.

I'm also curious as to why you've dropped to NVFR about 8 months before needing to in WA and 18 months before the rest of the country needed it?


UTR

I dropped because all my RAD and INST ADs came up.

Even 8K is a lot given I am mostly VFR, only IFR when caught on top which is about 2 or 3 times a year.

I am mostly also below 8000 unless going to Cairns where the dreaded Bellenen Kerr and friend await.

So, nothing in the $8000 for me at all!