Yea fair call, Massey probably isn't all that bad :ok:

Actually, Airline Flying club is a great value for money. And it is the friendliest place, too.

First up, your school marks dont count for much unless you goto the rnzaf which is the best option out of all of them.

Would recommend southern wings over ardemore or massey any day. The above bullet comment is harsh but true, further south the better. option of basing out of Invercargill is a huge bonus with the cheap living costs and abundance of part time jobs.

Hi yes I am Auckland based. In fact, i live 5 minutes away from Ardmore. Could you give an estimate of how much Im gonna have to pay if i were to self fund myself for my PPL. I was hoping that I could just loan the whole massey course because I like the structure that they have . Is there any way to achieve that at all?

I don't think you'd be loaning anything to Massey or where ever you end up going.

I guess you could go to a bank and borrow the PPL money or even the whole lot for that matter.

What's to like about their structure? You do realise the licence you get is the same no matter where you go? Some schools turn out a better product and very often for less money than other schools. I'm not sure if your two choices fit in this category.

HI 27/09 from what I understand, with schools like ardmore you have to book the courses separately? whereas Massey has a 3 year structure planned out for you. I dont know if thats how it goes but thats what i got from research.

Regarding the financial matters. I keep hearing from different sources that its impossible to loan out the whole thing nowadays, still dont know how that works.

Have you looked at CTC in Hamilton?

CPL course Melbourne VET Loan Part time
 

Hello,

I turn 30 soon, reside in Melbourne and am currently employed full time.

I've always wanted to fly and am considering heading down the pathway to a CPL (note - I have no flying experience).

At the moment, the only organisation in Melbourne that offers part time training with VET loan approval, is SOAR aviation. Most others only offer VET loans for full time training.

May I please have some advise and info, regarding any other organisations that offer VET loan approval for part time CPL courses in Melbourne.

Also, can anyone shed some light regarding the relevance of the aircraft used by SOAR aviation (through SAFT), i.e. the FOXBAT A22, as their training aircraft.

SOAR quotes aprox $80k for the CPL, out of which $75k is covered by VET.

Thank you.

Regards,
K

If you have to do part time it's your only option. Remember though, VET is a rip off to begin with. Soar charges $270 dual for an absolute basic LSA burning 20L of MOGAS.
80k is a lot of money when you'd have to buy 206 time afterwards.
If you're working why not self fund as much as you can, get a bank loan when you need to and negotiate a good rate for upfront payment? Save yourself a good 30k

If you want to get properly shafted, then go to Soar, otherwise steer clear!

All you have to do is figure out how a course costs $80k when the aircraft being used are useless cheap ass little s**tboxes that pose absolutely no real world purpose?

Thanks. I was wondering the same when I was browsing the costs of some of the other schools, which use better training aircraft and charge about ~$65,000 for the non structured pathway.

What are your opinions with regards to the employ-ability of a fresh 33 year old with just a CPL, and bridging that gap between 200 hours to 1500 hours for the ATPL.

@patty50 - Why do you think the VET is a rip off? Isn't it the cheapest loan one can ever get.

Getting work
 

I notice your age, and you obviously have a number of years of life experience behind you. Provided your a decent bloke.

YOU WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM GETTING A JOB AND GETTING TO 1500 HRS.

You are in the fortunate position of being well ahead of the pack, provided your a decent bloke.

That's a fact!

This is what I needed to hear from someone, before I take the plunge and spend my cash (given, I still do have a fair bit of research and decision making to do). I do not have friends that are familiar with aviation (neither am I), and there aren't many that have that positive outlook, when it comes to embarking on the journey to being a full time pilot. :ok:


@Glasgow_Flyer
Is that privately owned or are you part of a training school?; reason being, I could then pick your brains about training costs, if you are part of a training organisation. If not, still good to have that info tucked away for when I may need it a few years? from now.

Part of a club mate, but not a school - just a bunch of folk that like to fly :-)

VET student loans have a 20% fee and then go up by CPI. So by the time you finish you're just about 100k in the red with 200ish hours.

Compare that to a cheap PPL plus $104/hr hours building with some 182 time at the end before your test.

Insane Soar is allowed to charge that much for a plane that costs $75/hr to run.

Run the numbers but at the end of the day it's your money not mine.

Thank you. I can self fund my way to a CPL, in say, over a four year period or similar, destroying my savings so far, towards a deposit for a house. However, this is a sacrifice I am willing to make, if it means:

a) I'm going to save a fair bit of coin by avoiding VET.
b) In which case, I may as well go to a school that train students on better aircraft at a lower rate (based solely on forum opinions, as I'm not informed or qualified enough to make the comparison).

Normally a lurker but an FYI. The 20% fee only applies to full fee paying students, the 80k Soar/Saft course is government subsidised (full course cost is 90k) so the extra 20% is not added.

Page 5 - Bulletpoint 5
https://docs.education.gov.au/system...let_2017_0.pdf

The additional benefit of the self funding is you have much more flexibility and control.

Can go on trickier cross countries, rent the plane for a few days and off you go. You can fly high wing, low wing, glass, steam. Likely makes you much more employable having a variety of experience than if you have 200 Foxbat hours around regional Victoria.

Three tips to become a successful pilot.

Don't get in a relationship, don't have kids, don't buy a house.

Be careful going into GA in debt. Jobs are not only low paying but the industry is volatile with companies going under every so often. If you can, try and take a few years unpaid leave if your coming from a different industry if your in that position. Some companies offer extended leave provided you have been there a while and on good terms. I wasn't aware it was an option until I dug a little deeper, I was given 2 years unpaid leave (Retail Head Office Job).

What's your opinion on using the FOXBAT as a training aircraft, which SOAR does?

After a bit of number crunching, it seems that SOAR would be the only option available to me, i.e. part-time but VET loan available, the downside of which is their use of 'non-traditional' training aircraft, which I've been told are not ideal and are likely to be looked at unfavourably when it comes time for job search. Any other options for VET loans for part-timers in Melbourne?

I mistakenly believed I could have self-funded my way to a CPL, but that'll just lead me to a dead end when the money runs out, which it will, even if I did blow my savings for a house deposit.

Rather than an integrated CPL course, maybe self-fund your PPL, pick up some extra hours along the way, then get HELP funding for the CPL?

I fly at Moorabbin and the yellow Foxbats there are the source of a lot of jokes.

A heavier, more powerful plane like a Cessna or Piper flies quite a bit differently and would probably be a better stepping-stone to the industry.

Never had any dealing with SOAR myself, but I have heard third-party anecdotes that the place has grown quickly and is disorganised.

I've been told via e-mail that RMIT offer part-time option on their aviation course. I'm going to head in to their campus tomorrow, in person, to confirm this wasn't just some auto / proforma reply to every enquiry about options.

There isn't much info on RMIT training on the web, and what little there is, is dated and negative in nature. Any inputs on this?

Flight school is offering options of either Warrior or C172 for my PPL.

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on either aircraft for PPL training? Pros, cons etc. Currently training on the Warrior for RPL.

My son did his training at RMIT and things have worked out well for him.

The training is quite regimented and safety-orientated. RMIT seems to put a big emphasis on check lists, SOPs etc. This is probably a good habit for those headed to the airlines.

He hated most of the training, basically because a lot of the regimentation and control rubbed him the wrong way. However, the standard and professionalism of his flying reflects well on RMIT. He made some good mates at RMIT too.

As a parent, the level of control and direction was reassuring in a potentially dangerous endeavor.

It's a two year course with a massive workload to complete the studies in the time frame. Very steep learning curve if you don't have an aviation background.

My suggestion would be not to under-estimate the steep learning and to do as much preparation as possible before hand. This might include reading the theory books before the course, maybe try to knock off some of the theory exams and to get some flying experience (maybe try something cheaper like gliding).

They're both fine training aircraft.

My 172 experience is from the "fancy" models (172XP and 172RG) so it might not carry over perfectly. The key differences:

Pre-flight - Warrior is much easier to refuel, and it's easier to check fuel quantity (because the wings are at a reasonable height). Flaps being fully manual (rather than electric in the 172) means that you don't have to turn on the masters to check the flap hinges. On the other hand, the high wing on the 172 makes it easy to do your fuel drains, check flap/aileron hinges, etc - without crawling around on the ground. Two doors on the Cessna make it much easier to get into and out of, and the big (opening) windows are great in summer. The rear window on the 172 isn't used all that much, but it is nice to be able to see behind you before doing the run-ups.

Circuits - both the 172s that I've flown really like to stay stuck to the ground - you have to lift them off when you get to the appropriate airspeed. The Warrior tends to lift itself off as soon as it got to the target airspeed, and in gusty conditions you have to make sure that it stays down until you're ready to fly. The low-wing on the Warrior makes turns very easy (because you can see where you're turning), but also means that you can't see the ground so easily. For landing, I find the Warrior much more forgiving of extra speed; the 172 really has to be pretty slow before it'll make a decent landing.

Training area - the low-wing on the Warrior can be annoying when you're circling down for an emergency landing (you can lose sight of the target field), or for low passes during a precautionary search and landing. Of course, the Cessna's wing tends to block the field too as soon as you try to turn towards it.

Navigation - the big difference is the fuel tanks. Warriors need the tank changed every hour or so; the 172 just stays on "both" more-or-less permanently. Both are fine aircraft for navigation. I also find that the trim in the 172 is very sensitive; a centimeter up or down on the wheel makes a big difference. In the Warrior you can trim quite a lot without too much change. Neither is "better", just different.


If you're planning to continue flying on larger/faster planes, it'd be worth asking the school what their next level up is. Do they use a 172RG/R182, or do they go to an Arrow? The 172RG is likely to be an easier transition if you've trained in a 172, and the Arrow is likely to be an easier transition if you've trained in a Warrior.


Edit: apart from that, check the practicalities. If the school has one Warrior and one 172, and the Warrior gets used for all the RPL training as well as half the PPL training, then you're much more likely to be able to book time in the 172 for your PPL training. Check the instruments; when you start doing navigation exercises it is nice to have two radios, ADF/NAV (even if there aren't many NDBs and VORs left), GPS, etc.

Thanks Slatye - Much appreciated for the detailed feedback. My CPL is going to be in the Cessna 206. I am enjoying flying the warrior, however maybe the experience on the C172 would be useful.

Appreciate all the inputs received here so far. I've already asked this before, however I'll ask it one last time before I make the final decision.

Are the foxbats worth training on? I can slog my way through self funding and piss a whole heap of people and relationships along the way, or I could get vet fee to train on foxbats and preserve my financial stability.

I'm struggling to make this decision. I'm pursuing this, but the pathway is unclear.

Hi Septerra, I enrolled in the Diploma of Aviation with Soar about a year ago. Self Funding was not an option for me and the choice to use Soar was based primarily on the availability of vet fee assistance and the part time nature of the course. I am completing the course while working full time which requires sacrificing a lot of free time for study and flying but it is certainly achievable.

I was very hesitant to commit to flying training with the aircraft used by Soar but after some time spent thinking about it, the above criteria are what sealed the deal for me. I undertook some private training in a Warrior before starting at Soar and I have found that the Foxbat (and it's GA cousin the Vixxen) definitely has a degree of simplicity about it when compared to the Warrior and I imagine many other typical training aircraft. The aircraft have their own challenges though and the Vixxen will float forever if you don't keep it under tight control during approach to landing.

I do feel that the Foxbat and Vixxen are not the most ideal training aircraft for a future commercial pilot but to me the most important part of my training is in learning how to be a safe and capable pilot. I can summarise by saying it's learning good habits early, having the correct personal attitudes and behaviours for piloting and by developing the characteristics of good airmanship. Soar has some great instructors and I feel I'm learning important piloting skills that will transfer over to any aircraft I may fly in future.

Hopefully something in my opinion can help you out Septerra, message me if you want any additional information. Best of luck to you on your flying training.

Career change to pilot - advice sought
 

Hello,

Not sure if I am posting in the right part of the forum (please move my thread accordingly if not).

I'm 24, have a Bachelor of Science and have been in a full time office job in Perth for 3 three years now. For the first time in my life I have the financial means to pursue a commercial pilots licence.

I'm just looking for some advice on what people think would happen if I pursued my CPL part time whilst continuing to work. What would happen when I finished at age 29? would it be hard to find work?

My goal is to be an airline pilot, however I'm more than happy to spend the years working towards that. If I were prepared to re-locate anywhere and fly whatever was on offer (at whatever rate), would I likely be able to find work?

I don't know anyone in the industry or any pilots so I'm really not sure what happens after someone gets their CPL. Is there a risk of expending the time and money and then there are just no opportunities whatsoever?

I'm sure many people ask this question but any advice much appreciated.

Cheers.

Asking for advice on flying schools in Jandakot, Australia
 

Hi, its my first time posting here.

I am going to have flight training lessons in Jandakot, Australia for few weeks.

After doing some research, I have two options:
The first one is thunderbird aero services (TAS) and i will be flying DA20. (shd be Diamond DA20 C1 Eclipse)
The second one is jandakot flight center (JFC) with a cessna 172P.

However, the offer from JFC is AUD$500 cheaper than TAS based on an estimation of 10 hours flying.

I know that for flight training, the reputation of the flying school is more important than the type of aircraft or anything else. And if there is no big difference, go for the cheaper one. :ugh:


So I would like to know if any of you did have some experience with these two schools and can share with me?
If you were me, which one would you go for?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. :ok:

VET-FEE schools CPL Australia
 

I'm currently living in Perth and am looking to get my CPL in the next year or two. Unfortunately I can't afford to attend a flying school here in WA, and the military is not an option for me, so I am looking to get my CPL in another state at a school that offers VET student loans. As far am I'm concerned only the following schools offer this option - does anyone know which ones are good / which ones to avoid, etc.?

Flight Training Adelaide, Basair Aviation College, Australian Wings Academy, Box Hill Academy, Royal Vic Areo Club, Air Gold Coast, Aviation Australia.

Thanks!

becoming a pilot without studying physics and low maths
 

Hello all,
I am in a bit of a sticky situatuion, im currently in year 12 doing vce studying futher maths, geography, computing, product design technolgy and bussiness manangment but no science, i've currently got 11 flying hours and plan on getting more although i am worried their is no point pursuing piloting as a career as im worried i wont get a job in the future because im not studying a high maths or physics:ugh:, as i know qantas you need at least methods maths and asume other airlines you need to poses methods and physics. i hope for some advice because at the moment its not looking like im going to pursue my dream of becoming a pilot, thanks for your responses in advance!!!

The world does not revolve around Qantas, there are many, many viable career options for pilots.

Some excellent pilots I know have problems with anything more complex than Primary School Arithmetic!! :} :}

Skill and tenacity will achieve far more in a flying career than maths and physics - although all four helps. :ok:

If Qantas is your sole goal you should face reality and perhaps quit now - I don't know the statistics but my guess around one in a hundred Qantas applicants actually scores a gig at Qantas.

Hey tail wind,
yes just using qantas as a example because they have the requirements on their website which most others dont. Would a small regonal airline up north put your results of year 12 or your atar into precaustion when looking at resumes all would it mostly based on qualifications and hours?
thankyou!:)

NZ Exams
 

Morning all...

The goal is an NZ CPL and MEIR

The question is, do I need to sit the PPL exams, or do the CPL and IR exams count?

Thanks

Have a look at Minovation
https://www.minovation.com/
Did a flight review there a while ago and was impressed by the professionalism and customer service.

I am still basically a newbie, been out of the game for 7 months. About 1200 total and 140 multi, current IPC and MCC ATPLs. I have sent out a lot and trips to Darwin and Kununurra with no luck. Is it just me or has everything started to slow down bit. Maybe not a lot of recent flying could be. The issue???
Thanks in advance👍

I'd probably omit the fact that you went and got a MCC, unless you are applying to someone who needs it. Your hours and the fact that you have an MCC just screams "this job would be a stop-gap and I will leave as soon as an airline gig comes up".

Still plenty of movement, but it comes in waves, so it's really going to be the people waiting in the given location that will slot right in. I'm sure you'll get something, just be patient. :ok:

Best way to become an Airline Transport Pilot ?
 

I have a few options, but i don't know which one would be the best.
I'm located in New Zealand, resident here but i have european citizenship too. i'm starting university in January, and my final goal is to become an Airline Transport Pilot.


1. I could start Bachelor of Aviation at Massey university, and then work as an instructor , then just work my way up from there. ( uni is $200.000 :sad: ).


2.option. Massey university also offer Bachelor of Aviation Management, this would only be ($18.000) and outside university i can slowly learning to fly, privately.
or join to the air force (if i got selected) after i finished university. and after 10 years service i can get some missing licence and apply for a job.??


3.option. I could start some `aviation related uni`
Bachelor of Engineering (Honours) (BE (Hons)) (5 years) or Bachelor of Science (BSc) (3 years) and then the same thing , either aviation school or air force. not which uni would an airline recognize.

I have to stay in NZ for another 5 years to join the airforce, so i've got 5 years to do something useful. Preferably university, as it is a requirement, but can it be any kind of university?


Thanks!!
Roland 23/m

Thank you for this information,
I have talked to an officer and yes apparently it's pretty hard to get it. I don't really have saved up money, but i just found out there is a few flying club that's recognized by studylink, so i could get a student loan. Well, Engineering is 5 years, and i dont think its too easy. however if i do it i would have a backup plan, plus i could make my own money for flight lessons.
is university not a must? can you really be an airline transport pilot without any degree?
If i don't need any degree then i could just use that student loan to learn how to fly, and start working as an instructor or something similar.

When i went to talk to an officer at the air force, he said well minimal requirement is lvl2 math and science. but if you wanna be competitive, and you want to get in as well, you kinda need a degree, and few other qualification.:D