If you are closer to south side of Sydney, Camden is a good option. It is class D so you get CTA experience but the aerodrome is in the middle of the training area so it minimises transit time and typical taxi/hold times are usually much shorter than Bankstown.

When checking schools, visit and see how comfortable you are with them and perhaps book a TIF (trial instructional flight) to give them a try. One bit of advice I would also give, if a school asks for pre-payment for training or offer fixed price training, be wary.

Don't even consider payment up front, no matter how attractive the deal. Off spring was at a school in Port Macquarie where such a deal was offered for an instrument rating, no thanks, company closed its doors within weeks, bar stewards were still cashing the cheques of those they had conned on the day they declared bankruptcy. Shortly before closure off spring had done some local flying at home in one of the schools aircraft, made arrangements with the local refueller (aero club) that I would honour any fuel costs incurred that they couldn't recover, and it came to pass. Wish I had they same foresight in picking the lotto numbers.

Which path to take?
 

Hi all. New here and hoping I've found a new online home!

I am just about to (re)start on my piloting journey and am trying to decide whether to jump straight in onto a CPL path or stick with the PPL path. Deciding to do my CPL now, at the beginning, would work out a little cheaper in the long run.

My main goal, like anyone here I'd imagine, is to just be in the air as much as possible. I don't necessarily want to become a commercial pilot but I do want to find any reason I can to be flying once I have my licence.

I know that I can buy a share in a plane and/or hire one once I have my licence but would it be more economical to go with my CPL and get a part time job that would involve flying?

I know that most answers will be opinion based but its those opinions based on experience that will help me decide. Thanks in advance :)

Sydney Flight School recommendations
 

Hi, newbie here,
I'm 51 and an interested in getting RPL or PPL on weekends for just recreational purposes.
I live in Sydney's east so Bankstown would be my closest option - could consider Camden, but is is nearly 90mins away.
Please offer up your recommendations for flight schools and anything else I should consider along the way, such any medical issues for my age etc
I'm happy with PM's or replies here - what ever is most appropriate.
nice to be part of this community - thanks
reynos

Hi folks,

So I have read what feels like a million posts trying to determine what the best flight schools are in the Melbourne/ Vic area.

They have all meshed into some sort of abstract art in my head and unfortunately some of the posts are older and no longer relevant.

Could someone shed some light on schools that offer Vet Fee-Help for CPL Diploma courses? The current options seem to be Learn to Fly, RVAC and AAPA. We then have the degree options with RMIT, Swinburne (CAE) and CQU (MFS). Learn to Fly seem to have a good program and a new partnership with Griffith University but some older posts have not exactly rated them highly. Anyone recently experienced these schools and have any thoughts?

Learn to fly would be the best option out of the others. New and modernised fleet, good instructors and a great environment to be in. Something you could try do is a TIF at the school and see how you feel with instructors.

From what I understand LTF have only just recently started offering fee help loans, and the course descriptor on their website doesn't mention what aircraft you'll be flying. So while all the pictures in the brochure show the DA40/42 I suspect you'll find yourself in the 172s and Seminoles. RVAC is quite well regarded but their fleet is on the older side, and they're more expensive than LTF. AAPA are up in Wagga so a bit harder to compare directly.

The fleet will be DA40/42.

Hi Ajax,

I spoke to LTF and you can choose which aircraft to learn in.

AAPA also have a school at Ballarat which runs their Diploma course however online information seems a little vague.

Hi Reynos,

I am almost in the same boat and scouting for schools. Can I PM you and maybe we can pursue it together. We might end up negotiating a better deal on training plus can support each other along the way.
Please let me know.

Thank you,
Kind regards.
Prashant

Hi Magnum,

Apologies for the late reply.
Thank you so much for such detailed reply. It is really helpful.
I have booked an introductory flight from Sydney Flying Academy to get a feel of the things. Will surely check out Central Coast Aero Club. I am in western Sydney so need to factor in the travel time.

I don't want to set myself up for failure
 

Hi all,
I'm currently a Yr 12 HSC student in North Sydney wishing to have a career in aviation. I don't plan on going down the uni route, instead of going through an integrated course like that offered at Basair (YSBK) and others and eventually finishing with a commercial multi. From what I've read, however, the VET FEE programs can have some pitfalls alongside the general shambles of the industry in Australia at the moment from the impossibility of having any prospect of a job as a freshly popped wet CPL, I don't want to dive headfirst into the school and be subject to crippling debt.

I do have an advantage however in that I have dual citizenship (AU and US) and have family over there. I've also seen a few random threads mentioning US regionals wanting overseas pilots to join on the E-3 program and FAA license conversion. While that seems promising, I'm aware of the state of the wages and the onslaught of working in US regionals.

On the whole, I just want to know if it is worthwhile to wait for a period while the situation recovers here, and generate savings to contribute towards the commercial multi rating and eventually start some form of work in Oz, and do I have more realistic career prospects and opportunities in the US?

I'm well aware of the brutal and competitive nature of the aviation industry and its current shambles. I also understand the risks associated with a commitment to a future in it, and that is not a short process, and I can't expect any opportunities straight away. I do have other plans if it ends up not working out beforehand. However, I feel that an opportunity is still present in my ability to work in the US and the fact I will still be a reasonable age within a few years while the industry recovers somewhat to find occupation.

Any perspectives are appreciated

Thanks :ok:

You're young, so thats good for starters, If you can as you say, go to the US and enjoy all things Aviation. America is pro-aviation, OZ not so much.
Big tip=Always have another income source if possible. Dont forget that.

Thanks, really appreciate the input :ok:

---------------------------------------------------------------

Until you have a posting history you don't have access to private messaging and adding urls.

Much more short term responses need your email address to be offered.

Tried to PM back - you'll need to clear some inbox space.

Hi all,

Planning to learn PPL for leisure purposes in Sydney. Want to know how practical it is to fly for weekend trips to, for example, to visit the Dubbo zoo for 2 or 3 days.

The wife thinks I am just gonna waste money on learning it then never gonna ever use it again. I too have this concern as my original goal is to take the family or friends on cross country flights. But after the trial flight, I realised that flying small planes cross-country would not be any enjoyment for passengers unless it's a nicer/more expensive plane with aircon and more cabin spaces etc. Obviously, it is still doable to hire a better plane and plan for stops but don't see this happening a lot, likely tops once in 2, 3 years.

So a more practical use of the PPL would be to replace driving trips that are a bit long, like over 4/5 hours, such as going to the Dubbo zoo or the Snowy mountains. Then I started to actually think it through, and realised it is probably not that practical too:

1. Our place in Sydney to Bankstown airport is about 40 minutes drive with no traffic at all
2. We need to hire an aircraft. Did some searches, looks like a Cessna 152 costs around 350 per hour (wet), and a nicer 172 would be around 500 per hour. From other threads, it doesn't seem that easier to find airplanes to hire unless joining clubs/memberships etc but those add other overheads. I guess the market is not mature enough like renting cars.
3. We need to find a place to park our car at Bankstown airport. I guess it would cost money for secure parking since it's gonna be 3, 4 days.
4. The flight to Dubbo obviously is not gonna be a straight line, I am a newbie and just used some online tools, more realistically it's gonna be a 2 hours plus flight.
5. When we get to Dubbo, we need to rent a car to travel around. And maybe pay for the airplane parking? And pay for the plane while we are at Dubbo? I am not sure about this part.

So the rough total cost of flying there and back would be 1500+ for a simple plane and 2500+ for a nicer plane. I checked out the Qantas link flight tickets, during non-peak time, it's just 600 returns for 3 people.

Obviously, it's a private flying flight so it is meant to cost more but I just find it a hard sell to the wife... Am I correct about the above assumptions? Could anyone share some personal experiences, please?

You already know the answer I think.

Private flying is never going to save you money. If your hourly earnings at work were triple the club hire rate it would probably still work out cheaper to travel by car or RPT.

My advice is if you want to learn to fly you need to tell your wife you want to do it and argue about that. Don't try to contrive scenarios where it sounds more efficient than alternatives to sell it to her (or yourself)if because 99.9% of the time it isn't, unless you live on a cattle station.

I'm sure that you know that private flying is not about saving money. But what it does is give you experience you can't get elsewhere.

We only get one life. Some people like to buy art. Some people like to buy holidays to Bali. Some people like to buy wine. Some people buy NEW cars and don't think twice about the thousands in depreciation the minute the drive off the lot.

Some people like to fly planes.

When I sold my first property 7 years ago, I wished to earmark some of the profits to learn to fly..

My (now ex) wife demanded that I not waste 'our' money on something so frivolous (I was a sole income earner).

I deeply regret not following my dreams at that time. Instead all the profits were wasted anyway and wound up with nothing for us to show for it.

I am grateful that my current partner is supportive and practically demanded that go and follow my dreams.

I can't speak for your personal circumstances, but I've spent as much money each year for the last 6 years on one of my children's high school education as I could have spent getting an RPL with a passenger and Nav certificate..

My eldest is now 18, so I can justify it to myself that it is far past time to do something for myself that I've wanted to do since I was a young child spotting 727's flying overhead.

I have a feeling the Bankstown is an expensive place to fly from, as there doesn't seem to be to as many options as say a quick look at Morrabbin in Victoria ($500 an hour would get you a very spacious and very fast Piper Chieftain twin for you and 9 mates).

But, a 5 second check on internet shows at least one 172 at bankstown from $230/hr wet.

Perhaps look at other options at Warnervale or Woolongong (depending on which side of Sydney you are on).

Alternatively, you could purchase yourself (or you might find a few new friends when training and start a syndicate) something like a jabiru etc which is even cheaper per hour (does anyone have rates for Sling / etc near Sydney??) and not that much more than a 'nice' car to purchase (upfront costs only - I have zero experience with running costs - maybe pop down to your 'local' Wedderburn airstrip and ask some locals) and will hold it's value better.

One thing I will note, you mentioned $600 return on Qantas, but that doesn't include the parking, hire car / etc. It's just the airfare.

Which, I just ran a check and for 3 return flights to Dubbo on July 15 2022 (as at right now), you're looking at cheapest $834 vs $920 for 4 hours return in the aforementioned C172.

And you avoid needing to be at airport 1 hour before

You can dictate your own schedule.

Don't need to wait with check-in, security.

And you can take a 4th for "free" (or find a 6 seater, split the costs and take a 5th and 6th).

Best of luck with working out what you want to do.

If you're near Moorabbin, don't discount Tristar - their instructors are fantastic and they have a huge fleet (mostly Cessnas) to choose from, even if a bit more old-school than Learn to Die. Rumour has it that MFS is in dire straits and being taken over by MAS.

If you want to stay out of the politics and away from the multitude of CAE/Oxford Cessnas filling up the pattern at Moorabbin, head out to Lilydale Flying School in the Yarra Valley. The LFS fleet comprises everything from cheap(ish) Foxbats and Jabirus through the usual Piper offering and all the way up in $$$ and they offer both RAAus and CASA licenses under friendly instruction. Have fun choosing!

Sent you a PM