Have you done any flying at all yet?

Most 26 year olds with 50k would go and buy a WRX so at least it seems they you have your head on straight.

Tend to agree with WR XXX on this one, my only suggestion is to look at doing an apprenticeship as an AME while you are chasing the 737 seat .... That way you will at least have a trade to fall back on, I wish I had done just that 30 odd years ago .... Have fun :ok:
Cheers
A172

Thanks for the advice everyone (the good and the unhelpful too) - could i narrow my question down a bit more, putting all other factors aside (my interest, experience etc), what are the odds of an average person making it all the way from PPL right up to the major airlines?

Is the job market (RIGHT NOW) overflowing with unemployed junior pilots or does a new pilot have a fairly decent chance of getting into the airlines? Thx!:ok:

Which advice was unhelpful? :confused:

It all seemed very balanced to me!

Probably the truth that he didn't want to hear...

The truth is it's a great job.

But probably half the guys that set out with stars in their eyes make it to a regional. Half that again make it to a major.

If everyone made it, there'd be no one left down the ladder after all.

mmmmmm, dum-de-dum, what would I do if I had 50 gorillas & I was 26 years old. Get the f@ck out of this hole bro, get your licence in the States, fly a couple of seasons at Ice Pilots. On your way home do your float plane endo in Vancouver. By the time you get back here your uncle will be knocking on your door :ok:

Rookie it's not the job market RIGHT NOW that counts.

Start training today and it will probably be 18 months before you are qualified for your first job. Please be aware that you aren't ready for the cockpit of an airliner just yet.

Assuming you have been lucky, you might have your first job ($25-30k as a casual) as a very junior pilot or a junior instructor within 6 months of graduation.

You should expect 5-7 years clawing your way up the ladder, only leaving each job as a better job is offered (and occasionally getting retrenched) before you could reasonably expect to be in a small airliner.

Although you might technically meet an airline's minimum experience requirements within a couple of years, the plum jobs will often go to the candidate with far more than the minimums - like any career, to the best candidate available.

You might do it in less - and then again you might never make it at all.

Your intelligence, your people skills, your integrity and your determination will have a major influence on your quest to become an airline pilot. If you don't fit the defined mold you won't get into that airline - but that doesn't mean you can't have a fulfilling career as a pilot in one of many other streams.

Like many others I set off down this road with Qantas as the only possible objective. I was in an interview/Sim-ride assessment group in May 2008 with 4 others, all of whom were jet pilots for other airlines. I was scrubbed but the other 4 made it, only to be scrubbed when the GFC hit in October/November of that year.

To the best of my knowledge Qantas has not hired a single new pilot "Off the street" since.

I will echo the words of The Green Goblin - if you don't have the fire burning inside you, then you will end up either a) very lucky and in an airline or b) bitter and twisted and $80k poorer.

My advice is better :ok: you blokes are far too negative :ugh:

That's gold, Ranga!:D

Rookie, if you wanna do itand you can, just do it.

You put my post in the shade though, nothing for me??

I thought flight training is alot more accessible with FEE-HELP now...most schools who have it have seen huge jumps in their MECIR and IRC course numbers. I Wish it was around when I did my training, it would have saved alot of time and heartache but I guess its also partly responsible for a recent newbie flood I've been seeing as well as some people entering the industry with less "drive" than previously seen...

Just had one comment that seemed a bit out of place and offering no value...

Thanks for the rest of the advice everyone, time to book that first introductory flight and see how i go...

If I were 26, I'll do it in a heartbeat. I'm more than 40 and just started the journey myself.

37 and in Broome looking for work. Age doesn't seem to matter much from what I can see

Got my first job at 36, haven't looked back since! :ok:

Where To Now !!
 

Can anybody give me information about a good flight school that also might be able to offer employment as a flight instructor after any training.

Try Air gold coast at Coolangatta,

Pretty much all the guys I see go through the instructor rating at Moorabbin Flying Services seem to end up working for them.

Hey there

Its my first time posting, Long time reader, first time poster. This thread (Newbie Advice) is an absolute delight, ive read it about 3 to 4 times now, and i keep coming back to see if there's anymore haha. I just have a question, im currently in the process of looking for that elusive first job, however i was just wondering, is it rude to go in to a company and ask for a job or would it be more appropriate to call or email first for a suitable time? Ive always felt that going in and asking to see the pilot seemed a bit rude, since he could easily be working etc?

Some operators are good and will organise something whether it is an interview or tell you to send 'em an email. Others on the other hand will completely disregard you over the phone (either receptionists who want to get you off the phone or other pilots who couldn't care less about you). but always ask to speak to the CP or GM when making a call. This method does work but prob not as much as walk-ins.

If you want advice, I'd walk in off the street well dressed with resume in hand. If the CFI or CP or even GM is out or working, then politely ask to make an appointment. This I have found usually yields the best results.

HR

My tactic has always been to go in and speak to whoever mans the office, receptionist/pilot. Treat them like you are delighted to get a chance to speak to them and would they please pass on your resume/details to the relevant parties.

Many companies use the office person as a gate keeper. You won't get past them until the CP wants to see you, if you treat the gatekeeper right you go a long way to getting to see the CP. Some companies will let you meet the CP (usually a hand shake and basic introductions) straight away but it still doesn't hurt to make a good first impression; you may be seeing that office person every day you rock up for work in the future! :ok:

Hi all,
 

Hi,

Another long time listener first time caller.

My question is what are the first job options for somebody based in Perth, and what is the expect starting wage (p.a.)?

From what I have gathered thus far its circa 30k and job options are charter or instructor? I would love to go up north but having a wife and two kids limits how willing to relocate I would otherwise be.

I am still a looooong way from being able to make the switch from FIFO to flying I am just trying to get an idea on how bad the pay is going to be so I can set up to weather the storm of the first few years.

Thanks in advance :ok:

If you really can't leave Perth I'd say for the first year or two your options are solely instructing. I don't think any of the Perth charter companies take 200 hour pilots (who aren't also instructors to work in their flying school). If you can relocate your family further North you'd open up your options.

Wage of 30k? At best. It really depends, some people go straight on full time and earn more, most spend a year or two (or three!!) on casual and would earn that, sometimes less.

I have a lot of respect for the guys who do GA with a family. I found it hard enough to support 1 single person let alone a whole mob!

Cheers for the reply mcgrath50,

Instructing doesnt seem too bad I am a Cert IV trainer and assessor and I really enjoy the work 30k is do-able (my wife can always get a job as well) I will just need to set myself up financially before I make the switch.

When you say further north where do you mean broom ect?

Yeah anywhere in the tropics as a general rule. Kimberley, NT, FNQ. Which is the best one to go to changes each year. Darwin sounded extremely busy last year but Broome was relatively empty. This year Broome is packed with pilots looking for work. Plus it depends what companies are doing, expanding, contracting, going to an all turbine fleet etc.

Where to choose to set up camp is a much debated topic. The method I recommend is pick a town you would like to live in that has companies you'd like to work for. The lifestyle of the town is important as it may be months before you get a flying gig.

China Southern out of Jandakot may be a way to go for you, it is a sausage factory and no one I know loved their time there but it served a purpose, relatively steady income, lots of hours and relatively quick progression to multis if you stick around.

There's no right way to go about this, got to pick what's best for you and your dependants and have a bit of luck along the way!

Talked to an experienced pilot that recently went to Broome to look for work. He was informed by one operator that he must be a "resident" of Broome for several months before being considered even for an interview. In other words he must live in Broome, find his own work and after about six months he maybe considered for an interview for a job flying a single.

It just goes to show that there really is such a vast oversupply of unemployed pilots that operators can afford to lay down ridiculous criteria such as that above. Surely the AFAP would be interested in the shenanigans of the Broome operator (s)?

1/. Statistically, the newbie is probably from Mosman or Toorak and doesn't believe in unions

2/. If the newbie is a member, but is not employed by any flying organisation (as a pilot or otherwise), what business is it of the AFAP?

3/. Many is the newbie who arrives in remote town and finds the locals don't smell nice and their stuff has been stolen 3 times in the first week and it's all a bit lonely and I don't like it. So I'm leaving. It would be a pity to give this guy a job and have him slink off after 4 weeks.

4/. There are plenty of guys who take it all in their stride, become a part of the town they chose to target, learn the local businesses and people and tourist attractions, and get to know a few pilots as well. If I was a Chief Pilot I would be looking at these guys for my next recruit before I looked at the kid who just stepped off the burner from Sydney with brand new Aviators and a pile of resumes in his hand.

Cent,

I was told a similar thing when I was job hunting although it was more "It will increase your chances greatly if you were to set up in town."

It's a case of supply and demand. Why would an operator call a guy for an interview who has passed through and is now in Darwin when there are 30+ guys living in town with similar experience. As I'm sure you know most GA companies don't plan staff levels well and need the new pilot yesterday.

Hour Building
 

Hey guys / gals out there hour building

I have a very well priced C152 (NVFR!) based at YMMB.

Charged on airswitch at as low as $150/hr for block hour purchances

Pm for more info

I'm not sure why AFAP would take umbrage with preferencing people whom are established and living in town over those that aren't

Horatio, I haven't met any newbies up here from mossman or toorak yet, plenty from the western and inner west in sydney, and a bunch from perth. I'm not currently a member of AFAP but will consider it when I get a job, the correct union for me currently is the SDA but there isn't a hope in hell of me joining them after the WA senate debacle.

In the last few months I have seen all types of wannabes here in Broome, those that have literally come for 2 days to do the rounds then head back home to guys who are on their second dry season and still trying for a gig.

Talking to the CPs up here the main takeaways have been:

• there are more pilots here than the last 2-3 years and the theory is that this is because people doing the degree courses with FeeHelp are now starting to complete their degrees
• if you aren't in town you need to be very good or very lucky to get a job without being here (and out of the backpackers)

as for me, I'm pretty happy here, I have met some awesome people, I'm not working in an office for the first time in forever, the weather is nice, and thursdays at the roey is good for a giggle. I do want that first job but I'm willing to be a little patient to get it especially now that I have some cash coming in to support myself.

so far the records I have heard of for the quickest time to get a job was less than a week, and the lowest hours were a bit under 200, anything is possible and that is one of the things that does peoples heads in, they can't see the logic/method being used to pick the guys that are successful

You will also find there are less guys/gals in the piston singles/light twins moving on to bigger & better things as many doors have closed with all the airlines (especially REX) now offering cadetships.

Now that REX is no longer recruiting a large number of crew from GA on an annual basis, there are far fewer opportunities for the guys up there to move onto. Unfortunately this is a fact of life now and I do not see it getting better any time in the foreseeable future.

Both will take money from you in exchange for a license. None will teach you how to fly. Depends what sort of pilot you want to be really.

Search function is your friend
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...-good-bad.html

Well the CFI is still the same guy from 2007 so I doubt the spots on the RMIT animal have changed.

They no longer offer the one year diploma as virtually no one was finishing within 12 months. Now a 2 year course but apparently extending the time just extends the crap excuses for why you haven't finished.

On the other hand I hear Swinburne isn't getting rave reviews anymore either. Something to do with the take over not long ago and changes in management?

There are plenty of better schools you can attend. They won't have G1000 172's but they also wont be charging you over $350 an hour dual. They might even help you find your first job at the end!

PM me for a list of schools I would send friends to if I wanted them to stay my friends!!!

My son is most of the way thru the RMIT course and here are my observations:

1) The course seems to have improved greatly with a new course co-ordinator started about two years ago, about the same time it changed to a two year Associate Degree.

2) The place is quite structured and strict, with a big emphasis on check lists and SOPs. This may not suit all people, but is probably a good idea when you have a lot of young guys who sometimes have more hormones than good sense. flying small planes all over the country. It also builds good habits for pilots potentially headed for large organisations like airlines.

3) All of the planes are quite new. A mixture of C172, C182 and a Super Decathlon. Some of the planes have analogue instruments, some are G1000. Very nice fleet and very suitable for this type of training.

4) Over the years I'd heard some adverse things about the RMIT CFI, but my son's experience dealing with him has been very good and I now have a positive impression about him.

5) My son's first instructor at RMIT was a disaster, but he spoke to course co-ordinator and got a new instructor who has been excellent. The new instructor was previously a Qantas LAME and is one of the best instructors I've met in the past twenty years.

6) I've met half a dozen RMIT instructors and they all seem pretty decent and positive about the place.

7) Training at RAAF Williams Point Cook means there are great resources, with massive and good quality runways right next to a variety of controlled airspace environments. The RMIT buildings are very good, but it's a pain to have to drive to the shopping centre for food.

8) My son did his PPL at a larger GA school Moorabbin before starting at RMIT and went straight into second year. In hindsight this saved quite a bit of cash and gave him exposure to different environments which has proved valuable.

9) I can notice a difference in my son's flying. He has a much more professional approach which shows in in areas like pre-flight preparation, radio calls, circuit procedures etc.

10) In summary, it's a fairly tough course that needs a bit of dedication and hard work, but the facilities and training are very good. Junior is enjoying the course, making good progress and has made some good mates.

Just a word of warning, take what peterc005 says with a grain of salt. He's pretty infamous around here for posting unpaid ads for big university flying schools :suspect:

"but it's a pain to have to drive to the shopping centre for food."

I hope that was supposed to be a joke ?

All of a couple of kms at most, that is if you don't take your food
with you in the morning !

probably about as valid a comment as:
Yeah, because there are plenty of those typically in your first 1000 hours of GA.