I am sure this would not have made it into the media had it not been fully investigated and proven beyond all reasonable doubt by the employer, over the interveneing two weeks:

Rostering Practices!
 

As I said before, I worked for the service for many years and turned 67 whilst still on the normal roster. I had no problems with fatigue so the practice is good.

Everything is in place to protect flight crew from even themselves. There are never any questions asked if I pilot says he is fatigued, so there is just no need to resort to illegal practices.

Has Pelair got the QLD contract?

Well this would be a bit if a giveaway...

So he can't comment because of pending investigations including a Police one but he can fire the guy....

Not saying he's innocent but it's a bit rough.....

He may have made a full admission, hence the sacking straight away.

P1

Couple of things to think about here. This could be just like 9/11.

RFDS have a very good track record, sure some will find the odd bit hidden in the dark corners of the closet, but overall they have high standards, and high expectations of all their staff. Generally speaking a great operation.

They do not take in just any halfwit with a CPL, so this guy can't have been that dumb, although one wonders now stupid he was.

DAMP = FAIL

Casa if you are watching, that is FAIL.

Just like the moronic security rubbish we all suffer from as a knee jerk reaction to a small problem which was easily solved with just decent security and fitting the doors, we now have a mess.

So, after this rattles around the government and then the media again and so on, it is quite possible that DAMP, despite its best efforts and all the money thrown at it, will likely get an injection of cash to up the anti.

Of course this is great for those employed there, they have a more secure future, but it is a sad reality that no matter how much money and education thrown at this topic, it will fail again, and most likely not even make any improvement.

So look out boys and girls, more stupidity to follow for sure. And more waste of time and money that could be better spent elsewhere.

Coorect Jaba, and further to this the Drug Testing industry has now created a huge income for its self. Recently read that they are making in roads into testing school kids.
The Damp program in my company is costing a lot each year so can imagine the income for these people from the various mandatory testing regimes

I have been DAMP tested twice in the last 18 months. These were random tests, so it does happen.

I would like to make a comment regarding false positives. When I was being recruited for my current role, I had to attend a private clinic to provide a 'sample' for testing.

The nurse and I joked a little as I filled in the paperwork. The question arose: "do many pilots test positive"? Her response was that very few did and that those who fail DAMP testing tended to be cabin crew.

Upon testing my sample, the nurse's demeanor changed. She said that I had tested positive to opiate use. I denied that this could be the case. Her attitude was triumphant!: she had busted a pilot and she sneeringly informed me that the company would be notified immediately.

I continued to insist that the test result was wrong. She replied that the testing was very, very accurate and that the result was almost certainly conclusive.

At my insistance, I spoke to the Doctor in change of this clinic and asked for a re-test. He examined that test vial and the colouration had now changed from "positive" to "inconclusive". A new test was given to which I tested negative.

Anthill,

Had you eaten a roll with poppyseeds on it just prior to the test? That has caught a few people out before!

Poppy Seed rolls!

Always wondered why get a craving for one at lunch time.

Maybe it's my imagination but I seem to recall the large jar of poppy seeds in our pantry used for bakery was "unavailable" from the supplier for some time for reasons alleged to be drug related.

A close friend twice and shoulda been thrice Olympian was automatically banned for 2 years, 18 months out of the London ones for traces of a performance enhancing chemical that could only have come from the ingrediants routinely used in some food (FWIW it was an Asian meal) he consumed as a treat but was not on his approved list.

Now I don't condone drugs in any occupation but I would be disappointed if we are going in that direction for the day to day.

Off to make a poppyseed roll for lunch. Might even beef it up a bit with extra seeds:E

Did i read somewhere the guy was mid 60's?

So just because you had no issues, the practice is automatically good? Pilots don't respond differently to circadian disruption and fatigue, as the rest of the population do?

Give me strength... :ugh::ugh::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Oh I know a mid sixties RFDS pilot from Bundy. I truly hope it isn't him.

DB

Obviously didn't like the locally produced Bundy Rum.

RFDS-Reserve Fly Drugs Sleep.

Seeing as we are talking about DAMP. I was recently randomly 'selected' to be tested. I was on a morning shift, 6am start, I knew from about 8am that I was to be tested. The test didn't occur until about 1pm (as far as I know it was one bloke doing the testing).

Now if you cutting it a bit fine i.e. having a few beers the night before, you would be more than likely to test positive @ 6am with it wearing off 8,9,10am?

I fully support random drug and alcohol testing, FULLY support it. But if you are going to do it properly, you tap someone on the shoulder and say 'here, breath into this' not give them the opportunity to ingest something as a cover. 'I just cleaned my teeth' 'I just had a poppy seed muffin' which I have seen for sale at our canteen.

Drug takers and alcoholics are sneaky little ****ers. Following a privacy rights regime and under resourcing are easy to beat. A lot of the time people that are caught are the ones that 'want to be caught'

DAMP as it stands is a crock of ****, a box ticking exercise.
Fatigue management is a crock of **** as it stands and is a box ticking exercise.
ASIC's and ASIC controlled aerodromes are a crock of ****, a box ticking exercise and incredibly easy to bypass.

Horrendously expensive and incredibly ineffective. Somebody's making a fortune out of it and the public is feeling all warm and gooey.

:ok:
:ok::ok:
Spot on with both of those statements Jack but unfortunately I don't think we are going to see any relaxation of either regime in our time.

Jack, not for PM :ok: but minister for Transport and all thingaviation :D

Should this episode actually be drug related, wait for the DAMP people start sprouting about how their program worked as a pilot was detected.

Trouble is it appears as though it didn't detect anything until after the pilot's passing out raised alarm bells.

I would test positive for opiates right now.

Three weeks ago - gastroscopy - anesthetic = fentanyl.

Two weeks ago - minor skin cancer surgery - fentanyl followed by panadiene.

Today the last hurdle - colonoscopy :uhoh:

Would I have some explaining to do?

Well said, Stallie! Not to mention the cost & bother for so few results in general yet failing to prevent this possible instance.

This may take the thread away from DAMP for pilots, but it does indicate that the whole system is flawed.

The DAMP system is based around pilots and assumes that everyone including pilots is in perfect health.We all know that is not the case and even pilots are on regular (legally supplied and DAME approved) medications.But there are many duties in aviation that do not require perfect health.When all this started one CASA example was "the person washing the airport refuelling truck".Can anyone explain why that person can't be on a serious painkiller for say arthritis which will test positive for an opiate?

When I put that to CASA they said they were only doing what other industries are doing.However it appears that there are levels of health in railways with operational staff on a different level. In our industry we tacitly accept this as indicated by the fact that the only license medicals required by CASA, is for pilots. We even acccept different levels for pilots.Why do we then accept one industry standard for DAMP?

Under DAMP you could be on a prescribed medication and working as a LAME. If you are tested and found positive you go through the whole process of being stood down, medical review and reinstated. You then can be tested on your first day back and have to go through the whole process ad infinitum.
The system for anyone who has a medical condition which requires a medication that might test positive is a nightmare which CASA seems to have no interest in sorting out.

As a DAMP supervisor I find the whole system to be ill conceived and a paperwork war that in the end fails to acheive a great deal.

Wunwing

The drug testing regime seems to me to be an enforcement of lifestyle choices.
A test for extant primary substance in a persons body is oral fluid and breathe test.
This tells me if the person has drank alchohol or used drugs in the last 12 - 24 hours.
Urine analysis tells me if the person has used drugs in the previous weeks. Urine tests for metabolites of the substance not the substance its self. Urine test does not show that the person is under the influence at time of the test.

But does create more work and another empire for CASA which is what they are really about.

om.
Being on a medication that is prescribed by a doctor for a medical condition is not a lifestyle choice. In many cases its a life and death decision if you feel pressured not to take your prescribed medication.

The problem with the current DAMP process is that it assumes that all positive tests are an offence even if there is a valid medical reason. There is no provision for registering the fact that you are on a legally prescribed medication that has been determined by a CASA approved doctor to not have any effect on your work performance.

For some time there was a DAMP video that actually said that if you tested positive for any drug you had committed an offence. It now seemsto have been removed but I suspect that is still CASA's position. This CASA position seems to be questionable under the Human Rights Legislation.

As I said in the earlier post CASA is trying to work with a one "size" fits all system which in actual fact is a multi "size" environment. At the same time we have a stated Federal Govt aim to extend the working life of all Austalians and not discriminate by a number of categories including age and medical condition.

Wunwing

Hmmmm....colonoscopy and DAMP, I can see similaritys there.:E

This can only end badly for aviation...

What a great job we are doing! This is proof DAMP is working! More funding anyone? :{

No more cocaine and whiskey for breakfast then