How say you.
 

JQ may well be as guilty as sin, he may well be as pure as the Lamb. Who knows, or, better still, who cares.

This is not the question, not by a bloody long shot.

I would be the first to support a properly orchestrated CASA investigation and with proof positive (beyond reasonable doubt) as an acknowledged expert in the industry, fully support a safety related action. Indeed, there almost should be no need for the clever workings of skilled lawyers to argue the 'technical' malpractice. Perhaps the sentencing, perhaps the severity of the punishment and certainly the mans rights. This guy, right or wrong got stitched by the system, not the crime.

As has been said; a weak, vacillating industry gets exactly what it deserves.

You have got the regulator and the regulation suite you deserve, the question remains; what ?, in all the hells, are you going to do to fix this bloody awful mess. Eh?.

What ?. Whine on Prune, arrgh spare me. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/pukey.gif

Selah.

PS. Tks GDock, may the force be with you. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/thumbs.gif Glad you held the fort. :D

For the fans (and critics). Henry VI, scene ii, Blacheath.

CADE. I thank you, good people: there shall be no money; all shall eat and drink on my score; and I will apparel them all in one livery, that they may agree like brothers and worship me their lord.

DICK. The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.t

NEM Project 11 looks good mate.

Thankyou all for your support
 

I have had so many phone calls emails from fellow aviators engineers and many people that i have flown over the years including government jobs.
I am so amazed by the support i am getting,it makes me realise there is nice people out there.I am amazed by the stories that i am being told by people who have been in the same situation as me.
I am gathering information to give to higher authorities so we can have a good look at the controlling bodies.
Any one who feels they have a story can email me.
Cheers John Quadrio

John there are certainly many many cases out there that mimic what you have been put through. I wish I could say you are the first and the last, but sadly that is not possible.
Hopefully Messr Phelan has been in personal contact with you, and by now you would be aware of who in the political world will actually take interest in your plight, there would be less than a handful of genuine politicians in Australia that have the testicular fortitude to be interested in your case, but it is something. There are also what I would call 'justice seeking champions' out there like Shane Urqhart and family members of some of those killed in the seaview accident who silently and sometimes not so silently let it be known that the fish has been rotting from the head for decades.

And that is the ironic twist isn't it? Lives have been lost, both physically, and materially (as in Johns case) and it would seem not a nights sleep is lost by those accountable and entrusted with upholding safety within Australian aviation. Human lives and people's dignity and reputation should not be allowed to be destroyed for no better reason than a mob of limp dick gutless vermin not having the strength and character to admit to being wrong or making a mistake.

The power does lay with the people, there would have to be at least 30 000 people alone directly employed within Australian aviation, and only 650 Fort Fumble incompetents, it is time for the people to gather enmass and force a change.

The Buck stops here.
 

Been thinking and talking with 'grown ups' about the JQ case. I have tried to define why it deeply offends so many people, in so many ways.

For my money it's the 'manner' in which it was managed and prosecuted. This case should have been sorted out over a 'tea and biccies' chat between CP the FOI. If, (big if there) the FOI and CP believed there was a case to be answered perhaps it may have gone to the local manager; but it should have been sorted out long before an expensive 3 ring circus rolled into Dodge.

Since the current director has been in charge, managers are reaching for the RCA/ Show cause book when a mouse farts in hanger 13; are they on a quota or what?.

It's time the industry signed up on a single, short document. An industry wide call for the resignations of the people responsible for the management of the CASA. Not the clowns in the front office, they have to earn a living somewhere and good sheltered workshops, are hard to come by.

How about it ?. A simple petition signed by all would do the trick. Money where your hearts, minds and mouths are, or do 'they' have you by the balls.

Selah.

I agree. One of your posts I can follow, less cryptic :ok:

As you have a way with words, draft away. If it is good enough there will be huge response.

Safety is a state of mind, not a book of regulations.

I think the modern world has lost sight of that.

DRAFT AWAY
 

I'm with you Jaba - Kharon old son, draft (not draught)away. The KISS principle will do fine, keeping in mind the last para from your second last post.
It seems that most have "talked the talk", now time to write the write.
I'll put me two bobs worth in, or out, as the case may need.
I'm told there are some bargain priced sheltered workshops coming up shortly,
uniforms supplied (including boots with loud,clicking heels), pens and paper, paper clips etc available.:mad::D

petitions....
 

since they have to be formally preambled.? and correctly laid out or they go in the bin... how about those of legal mind set too, and make up the appropriate page/s that can be emailed to everybody in the GA industry, pilots, owners, engineers for signature.

Since we are all spread across the GAFA, the page/pages can be downloaded and signed by individuals or groups of, sent to a central location for collection, registering, collation, whatever and a full set sent off to....
the Governer-General
the Prime Minister
the Minister for Transport
the Senate... to be tabled
the House of Reps... to be tabled
and a precis detailing the demands of the Industry to every damned politician in the country, State and Federal.
At least then none can say "we didnt know what was going on"

And maybe delivered to Parliament House with a mass protest.

"WE the people of the Aviation Industry, having lost all faith in the regulator, due lack of governance, integrity or morality, and without practical sense or sanity in the regulatory laws, hereby demand.......etc, etc , whatever.

Kharon..? Anyone..? ps. Its very urgent.!

People out there more computer savvy will know a quicker way to get responses back.

Donations to where?

Be patient grasshopper, people are working on it.

I've found donations to be a lost cause if collecting for any action of any consequence against a regulator who is prepared to spend the last cent in the taxpayers purse to defend the indefensible.

If one were to use it to attack individuals cast out from under the CASA umberella, well that may be a different thing. It may teach some that once out, you are fair game. It may help moderate their actions whilst in uniform. "Following orders" was chucked out as a defence at Nuremburg in 1945-46.

John Q,
Senator David Fawcett of SA is a helicopter expert par excellence, drop him a short note, and a copy of Paul Phelan's article, then talk to him direct --- if you have not already done so.
He WILL understand all the technical issues, that CASA and the AAT did not!
Tootle pip!!

thy for all your support
 

I am still coming to terms that the AAT did not stand up to the CASA.
I always thought Australia had a fair legal system.
I have always conducted myself in a safe and professional way as a pilot.
The extent that this incident has hurt my family is unreal.
All that i can say is i will fight the CASA all the way and i now realise it is not only me they have picked on.
The amount of support that i am receiving overwhelming.
Anyone else with similar stories please contact me so we can be united and stand up against the CASA.

Bump - Support John
 

Guys,

Has anyone thought about putting a camera on an RC helicopter and doing steep turns and wing overs, then comparing the footage?

I'd be reluctant to do it in the real thing in case Casa came after me, but the laws of aerodynamics are still the same?

I'm sure there are plenty of fellas on here into RCs.

The results would be interesting as I suspect you will turn through 60 degrees in a wing over however it is not sustained.

As for the low flying, as per the CARs you are exempt from the 500ft minima when in the process of taking off and landing. Wasn't this helicopter attempting to land?

Cheers

Better still, you could break every rule in the book, make sure you are on your own with a mounted camera postioned in a way that doesn't reveal your actual identity or the identity specifics of your vehicle, then film your mischief, perhaps even topping it off with a 'brow-eye' at the end of the footage (make sure you don't have a recognizable ass!!).
Then post it to Fort Fumble and put it on the Tube. A bit like Brendan 'the postcard bandit' Abbott', taunt the nupty's. F:mad:k em.

It's not very mature, but neither is CASA.

The Video
 

They do not need any other evidence they have the video.
They were not interested in going to the area, but they were interested in believing the evidence of a criminal which they knew spent 1 year in jail on 100 charges. Even after the DPP dropped the charges CASA still tried and make evidence up.
The only rules for .......... is there is no rules they make up the rules as they go.They dug themselves a hole and tried to make up ..............

Been suggested
 

Guys and girls,
dont be complacent, this could be you tomorrow, if you feel as bad as I do about John's situation go to the no confidence vote...what have you got to lose??..except your industry!!

The Aviation Advertisers web site is down and Paul Phelans article there for not available. Conspiracy theorists have any clues? Any old cynic will do. :E

BTW, can any one tell me if torque turns are part of the syllabus of training for helo drivers to get a licence? For you plank drivers it's the equivalent of a stalled turn - sort of.

casa dogs
 

Hi John,contact Paul Phelan, he will give you the name of a good fighter against casa, & his string of lawyers, he had his licence pulled for flying a sea plane off a trailerdown runway,they did not do any investergations etc,, he has always beaton casa & now sueing for over 7 mil casa staff included ,some will lose their houses,,
He is just starting a class action also against, casa & staff & however are involved ,messing up other peoples lives

cheers

gkpilot,

Is there any public information about this case around at the moment?

It'd be excellent to see some real accountability hit the regulator, and for those responsible to be on the other side of the counter asking if I want a coke and fries with my Big Mac, where they belong.

aat
 

yes last time he went to court was 29 oct 10 note that was day of hearing on medical,the sea plane was i think in june july 2004 and nov 2005, or maybe 2003 not 2004 but in WA ,AAT,,,it,s very intresting reading ,the ex casa now #2 should be ashamed of them selves ,not these fellows,from nazi germany I think

As I mentioned back in post #68:
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-a...ml#post6803009
If you compare the two mentioned flights there is no comparison.

John's flight manoeuvres are probably legitimate in the context of an approach to a bird ladened HLS.

Whereas the other flight was a training flight conducted in a transport category, non-aerobatic aircraft with full crew on board.

Both pilots were investigated by the regulator. The difference being JQ loses his license and the other bloke continues to operate with impugnity!:ugh:

That would be a "yes" for me in regards to the petition.

wires crossed.....
 

gkpilot.... methinks you have some things mixed up there..

The seaplane/trailer event was the (in?) famous Gerald R... the guy that WA CASA just loved to hate.!
3 cheers for him that has the balls to kick back.! :ok:

You are certainly correct about the National Socialist/Nazi/SS style of some of those CASA:mad::mad:persons.

They would have been right at home during Kristallnacht, smashing up people and businesses....as they do. :(

No Confidence. Vote here
 

dont just sit there, add your signature to the 'no confidence petition' in the DG&P Reporting section... go here:

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-a...ml#post6834997'

avia ministers
 

every one needs to submit a complaint to every minster /as the now aviation minister & shadow minister ,do not want to know anything about aviation,, as it is to hard,to revamp CASA
I spoke to the top man J.Mc C about the good job 2 U.S pilos did, on landing a 737 at Jandakot ,on min weght & fuel,as the runway is only light ashpalt..He went made saying how he is trying to have their
lic pulled plus the engineers who put the aircraft back on U.S rego
as gov training school had seek permission on VH rego
the yanks laugh ,about Mr J McC well CASA is a laugh

Phelan latest- latest.
 

Aviation Advertiser is carrying a story on the petition, wonder how long it will be before Paul gets His letter, from 'them', the 5 o'clock Friday afternoon one, you know.

Anyone silly enough to bet a slab on the words "appolgy" and "defamation" being mixed in there along with a load of legalease pony pooh?.

Launching a seaplane off a trailer is not an indication of a safe operation.

Kharon have you recieved any feedback from Fort Fumble or Minister Fumblenese's office yet?

Reading Paul's article here:Industry group calls for Senate enquiry , I don't think he has too much to concern himself over in the defamation dept! Paul also provides a link to the petition, I wonder if it would be worthwhile approaching Ben Sandilands for a similar article with link provided?

Kharon

If they do, it will add fuel to the fire. Paul is not exactly in his 30/40/50's any more and what do they think that would achieve? He has nothing to lose. Not a good target IMHO.

He has the pen on his side and we all know the mightier of pen and sword.

CASA need to understand all this built up frustration and anger in some cases is well founded and going to boil over at some point.

Myself personally? I have never had a problem with them, apart from one time where left hand had no idea about right, nor the requirements. When I know more about the rego process than hey do it is a funny day.

My biggest concern is the future of the industry. Seen a few folk being being done over, yet others who really need it get ignored.

I see Casa trying hard to make positive steps, the aging aircraft study for example, but honestly how many folk will welcome heir team into their hangar for some serious one on one fact finding? Very few. Why is that?

Why when word is around that RAA and or CASA folk will be attending an event a large number of folk run and hide. And not because they are cowboys, just that we all know, every time you fly some rule hidden somewhere is bound to be broken.

Yet on the other hand the Langley Park fly in right in the middle of Perth went really well, close work with CASA and during the event they relaxed and said effectively, you guys have this nailed, you don't need us watching over your shoulder.

There are glimmers of hope, but they need to market he selves better, and fix their product. To do that they need to quite the BS like prosecuting the JQ'S of this world perhaps go back and right some wrongs and show some good faith, be seen to be fixing their mistakes. Of course they will be afraid of law suites left right and centre if they do that ..... But they have to face up to the music for a change. An Amnesty is what they need to get out of that one.

Enough ranting, for now. Get behind fixing up our regulator folks:ok:

Good post Jaba! I like you have never had much issue with the CASA.

Although I was somewhat amused (or bemused) when getting ramped one day at Meeka. The FOI after going through all my paperwork, proceeded to quiz me on my printed SIGWX chart. When I asked what was his reasoning on the quiz, he told me that I'd be surprised how many people carry them around and don't know what they are supposed to depict, go figure!

Another instance I had dealing with the regulator was being interviewed (taped) in Meeka. The investigator questioned me about a flight I had conducted (some two years before) in the Straits with a certain Mr Mick Toller in the RH seat (Torres will remember that one!).

So besides the occasional ramping and a CP interview, all of which were quite amicable, I personally haven't had any real issues with the regulator.
However the same cannot be said about a lot of my colleagues, some of which have some horror stories to tell!

I also believe that the regulatory review and the morass of over complicated regs/rules is a major embarassment and needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

The double standards is also a huge bugbear of mine, JQ's case versus a certain SAR operator is a 'case in point'!

Related to that SAR operator is the 'politically correct' manoeuvrings to try to shelve a legitimate investigation, meanwhile a person in authority continues to thumb his nose at the regulator.

Meanwhile one of the most honest, true gentleman FOIs has had his audit (2010) of said company quashed as it is not 'politically correct'.:=

While these shennanigans are going on the good FOIs and AWIs are constantly hamstrung from doing their jobs properly.:ugh:

No, now is the time to stop the rot!:ok:

trailer launch....
 

bh....whats yre problem?
Many straight float planes land on the grass at an airfield for maintenance and depart later on a truck or trailer assisted take-off.
Quite a common practice in the USA.

But over there, they dont see every aviation action as a threat to mankind!

What do you reckon would be the outcome for the pilot of a Super Cub, having been ripped up by a bear, and flown out of a remote area, all strapped up with duct tape. And land back in civilization for repair...in front of some CASA AWIs.!! (horrible thought):eek:

I dont think it would be congratulations all round for such a ballsy and clever way of salvaging his aircraft. His aeroplane, his "fix", his risk.
It would be down into the dungeon for him.
Commonsense and initiative have been regulated out of existence in this country.. for "safety' reasons.

And what is the indication of a 'safe' operation? All aviation endeavours have a risk. Life is a risk.
GR would have been aware of the risks, but sucesfully flew the mission.
Onya Gerald.!:ok:

Agree Jabba/Sarcs
 

Here is the first entry again. The problem, from my study of public information, lies at the top, the FOI and AWI are hidebound to enforce compliance with every iota of a Reg, no matter if that Reg is "bad law". It's the KGB style of legal administration, supported at the top which is removing the 'Judgement" part of FOI and AWI task. This ethos is enhanced when 'known' bad apples are given powers which they would not ordinarily be given, under sensible direction from the top.

Peace cannot reign until the screaming stops.


I

seaplane
 

You certinly donot know anything about seaplanes , or maybe flying ??only a handfull of seaplanes in OZ ,,embarrising,, Alaska have 12,000 + planes 8,600 seaplanes over half without radio,s
86,000 + s/p in the states, Yanks do it well..

Really:eek:
Is that after hovering:confused:
what is there to know, you have the sea, then you have a plane.
You shouldn't believe everything on the intywebs mate, that was a scam

Quiet a regular occurrence even here in Aust.

CYA and etc...
 

Kharon... from your paste.
Re: the Skull is very much aware of what is going on, but protecting the staff is the name of the game... whatever it takes.
Dismiss the finding of the ICC, have an external investigation instead.."fairer to the staff" (quote), change the target finding of criminality to breaches of the 'code of conduct', and upchuck an "Ethics and Conduct Commmittee",(sic... very sick) to oversee the result. :uhoh:
Excuse me while I convulse with laughter on the floor.!
And we are suposed to take all this as fair and appropriate, FFS ??? :mad:

I would say... reading from the CAC Act 1997...that all this would be a serious breach of the 'Foundations af Governance' and the responsiblities of a Director.
".Directors duties help ensure that bodies under the CAC Act 1997, use the resources in good faith,in the best interests of the relevant body, and for a proper pupose."
Yeah, well...just fancy words ????

So you are right..Peace cannot reign until the screaming stops.

gk. Nah.. dont know much about flying, only been at it since 1955, so I'm still learning, as in building a set of floats to go on the J2...so Ive got a lot to learn in that regard...flying floats.
Must be a hellava lot of trailer take-offs in Alaska & the US then.?
Might have to do one myself..!! Exciting! :ok:

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Black Hand so you get the full picture it is possible to land floats on a bitumen surface without problems all Edo floats have a skeg of solid sacrificial aluminium hat will allow this, it is not general practice but it can be done in situations where a landing is necessary and doesnt wreck either the floats or the attachment to the airframe.

Landing on wet grass is a snap and is SOP for Edo floats.

@Frank and T28
Thats great stuff, hadn't thought of lighter aircraft and floats.
Have been involved with Otter and Beaver which are probably too heavy and fast to attempt it.
Cheers
BH

De Haviland Beaver floatplane landing on grass:


Also:

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k5...g?t=1260480528

Our chief pilot landed this Otter with the wheels up on this runway, Bettles AK, We picked it up with fork lifts and put the gear down. No obvious damage to floats....

No problem for the Twin Otter either - however you usually don't see it as amphibious floats are more common.

:rolleyes: