Airline Pilot Jobs in Australia now and in the future
 

Hello all,

I am looking for a little bit of advice. I am on the verge of getting out of general aviation into IT, basically for the money and lifestyle. At the moment I'm trying to get an idea of what a future airline career would be like in Australia. In particular I can't find much specific information on what pilots for jetstar and virgin get paid these days, and more importantly what they will be getting 10 years from now. I am concerned with the growing trend of airlines moving toward cadet pilot programs; self funded ratings etc and the general reduction of safety and wage requirements in order to lower their bottom line.

Therefore I respectfully ask that if you are in the know when it comes to working for airlines in Australia that you could PM some details of how you find working for your employer and if you could give me a general idea of the salary one might expect in the future.

Let me also concede from the outset that maybe the information is out there somewhere in the ether but I am really looking for some informed, honest and up to date opinions of those who know what they are talking about. Also I hope this won't make me a target for those heroes telling me that it's not about the money and that I shouldn't care what I get paid if I get to fly awesome aircraft and wear a cool uniform, because I think that is total crap. I am already slogging it out in GA for a pittance but have read one too many articles and listened to one to many airline captain tell me that the industry is going downhill fast that I am trying to make an informed decision and if necessary, career change.

Many thanks,

J

..see ya...wish I did an IT degree :{

To give you a heads up, I'm not even close to making the same money as I was 10 years ago (essentially doing the same job, different airline) and I'm working a lot bloody harder for it too...

In ten years from now, with the the way its going, I'll be on less money than I'm on now...Get the drift??

G/A to I.T ? I wish I'd been that smart 25 years ago!!!

I'm in IT and after 10 years I'd make more $$ as Plumber. But unfortunately I like working on big iron computer systems (the A380's and 747's of the computer world) a little too much.......

IT in Australia is in a constant downward slope as far and wages and conditions are concerned. It's quite hard to compete with 10k per year Indians when the only factor that seems relevant to management is cost. If your concerned about outsourcing and offshoring in the airline industry just look at what has happened to IT over the last 5-10 years. At least as a Pilot you have legislated maximum working hours etc, I've done 20 hour straight stints with only the odd 10 min meal/toilet break only to get rang by work 30mins after hitting the sack......you pay for that for weeks afterwards.........

If you want to know where we're headed, just look to the public. They still think we're over paid and underworked. I suggest reading the comment by the public in the article on the Jetstar thread. Makes you sick to be hacked down by tall poppy because of a perception. I still get told I don't work for a living by guys now earning more than me, working less than me.

The only thing I will add is to have a look at Ireland's property boom. Some similarities. Uncertain times for all Australian's, at least we know what the score is.

Ironic isn't it. Pilots lamenting they didn't pursue a careeer in IT, and IT people telling us about their downward spiral in pay and conditions, presumably because too many people wanting to work in IT!

The constant in all of this, is the rape of the middle class by unscupulous, bonus driven mangement, and facilitated by their lackies: HR!

Michael Moore's Capitalism : A love story, explores the death of the Middle Class (yes you and me) by the rampant greed of the corporate entity. Destroy the middle class and there can only be one final outcome: REVOLUTION!

Oh well, at least we'll know who'll be first against the wall when that time comes. Eh Comrade! ;)

I spent many years in IT to pay for my flying lessons. I loved my job and would still be doing it now if I was unable to fly.

I am now a wide body captain earning far more than the IT guys I used to work for. I love my job, love flying and I would not change a thing.

If you love flying, go for it. Stop listening to the these glass half full guys and do what you want to do.

I have never been told I am overpaid, except my management, but I got that in IT years ago as well. This industry is full of whinging whining individuals who complain and complain, but guess what... They are still here. If it's so bad, why have they not left to go into IT?

If you really love flying, stick with it. If you don't, go back to IT. Maybe the days of the really big bucks are gone, but I am happy with wIth what I get for what I do, i stil love going to work and love flying and that's after over 20 years of doing it.

We have seen the industry expand and then halt many times before so while recruiting may have slowed in the short term, it will sure as hell kick off again very soon.

You do what you feel is right and stop listening to negative comments.

That sounds fine - but you do have to be realistic about what the current management for the various airlines have done to the industry.

It is no longer a "career" - it is now a job.

I fly for one of our "leading" airlines. The time is fast arriving where I will have to leave Australia and work overseas. Most probably have to permanently relocate and take the family with me, due to the double tax grab of Australia if you work overseas and have the family still here.

Ironic:

Less hours flying now = less pay - fast approaching the point where I will have to sell the house. That leaves the option of either buying or renting an apartment and sending the wife back to work another job or leaving the airline I work for.

If I leave and commute from an overseas contract - I will be in the same financial position due to the ATO assessing me as a resident and taking another tax chunk apart from the country that I would be working in.

If the current situation continues - the only viable option is to sell up and leave Australia completely and permanently. Pretty sad state of affairs if you ask me. Put my heart and soul into it............. but as you do, manage the situation and "keep on keeping on". At least the kids got to spend a lot of time with their grandparents over the past several years.

I am at the upper end of the industry - I can only imagine that the guys and girls doing the turboprops would be doing it tough on all accounts. Imagine trying to raise a family on a turboprop wage and conditions? Hard going - take my hat off to you people bouncing around in the icing levels, non-preciosion approaches and trying to pay the bills!

You should ask the wife what she thinks (assuming there is a significant other)......

Would I do it all over again - maybe (I don't know) - but i would NOT entertain Australia as viable option for employment that gives a "return for investment in both money and time spent" in developing your own skills.

I've worked in IT for 25 years.

If you have a hot IT specialization and work as a contractor, you might make great money. Maybe 100k to 200k a year. Certainly working more than 40 hours a week.

The problem with IT is that it changes quickly and is fad-driven. You may have a hot specialization and make good money for a couple of years, and then be unemployed for a couple of years.

A while ago I hopped into a taxi and it was being driven by an old mate who used to be a SAP consultant. Making 250k a year, unemployed for 12 months, then driving taxis.

Most people in IT make average wages, maybe $50k to $70k a year, $40k for a graduate.

Most flight instructors would earn less than IT people. Most IT people would earn less than established airline pilots ($150k).

Pilots love to whinge and moan. Find a job you'd love to do and go for it.

An3 bolt. Not sure who you work for or what rank you hold, but for me I have a career not just a job. My salary has gone up 90k in the past 10 years, same rank. I live and work in oz, have a nice house, 2 nice cars, take the family on holidays each year, own numerous investment properties and live a great life on what I get paid. Everything I have I have because I worked hard for it.

I can hardly cry poor! I invest wisely and think of my future always as far as money is concerned. That is why I invest. I still buy the big screen tv's and have all the toys. Maybe your not on the same money as me?? But all the guys I know (captains) including narrow body are on over $200k which is nothing to sneeze about. I have mates on the 737 nominating to work hard earning $250k. There is money there if you want it. Sure 15 years ago guys might have been earning more but you can't tell me it struggle street on that sort of money now? Sure there are guys in HR, PR, and some in the mines earning more, but who gives a rats. I live comfortably, can provide well for my family and can save for the future. There will always be someone earning more. If you want to complain, please explain how a low IQ footballer can earn what they do.

I started in GA, like most worked my ring off and lived in poverty for years before getting a break in an airline.

fmcinop....you're simply explaining all the reasons that management are going to get rid of you.

Certainly, for anyone thinking of starting out now, it will NEVER be like that.

I just wish I did a trade instead of my stupid Aviation degree.

Single biggest education mistake I've made. I've painted myself into a corner.

If had done a trade I'd have that to fall back onto. Right now I've got nothing.

Not cry poor dude. Just the facts for me. My pay is dropping.

Probably better off looking at the FO wages on the maggott. That would be more realistic - going to be a very very long time to command on a maggott or anything else for someone joining these days. So unfortunately your mates rates for maggotts probably a very long way off for newbies. Great to be on the pay you mention .... but that is if your number is up to get there and it is going to be a very very very long time as an SO/FO before you get that chance.

Isame same dude. NT, PNG etc etc. Enjoyed it all. But the time to promotion and relative salaries of such do not give an appropriate return on investment in my view.

But everyones thoughts are different. Everyones circumstances are different. That is why it is always a personal decision.

Cheers

Mr Hat - Get yourself a Security licence. I have been working in the security industry for 6 years. its payed for my cpl course. Depends on what state or territory you are in, but it will most probably be a 2 week course. Never a shortage of work if your prepared to work weekends and nights. Most companies ive worked for didnt require a resume' or an interview. ring them up, if u have a licence, start that weekend. :ok:

Bully for you - because it's certainly not one of the JetStar franchised LLC's in Asia who pay their captains barely $110,000 a year for 90 hours a month and generously supply one free bottle of water per day as in-flight rations.. :ugh:

CPI and cost of living go up yet wages still like an elevator - "bing" Going down... Not the best of choices.

But I'm still here. Must be something appealing if we all complain so loudly yet are still here...

Choice over again and I would be surrounded by ocean rather than clouds...

Job to fall back on
 

I do para drops on the weekend to build hours and during the week I drive a truck. Its through an agency and i do 6am to 4.30pm mon to fri, no weekends and as much O/T as i want. I get offered training courses for free such as TAFE diplomas and licence upgrades. I gross around 70k a year. Thats for an outlay of between 500 to 1000 dollars depending on where you get your licence. My contract company cant get drivers so the pay goes up to keep the ones they have. I dont even have to buy a uniform, its free!

How many turbo prop FO's get 70k for mon to fri?

tarmac12,

Good on you, makin' it work for ya. Even a grand for a truck licence is cheap considering a pilot licence. Unreal. Makes ya wonder hey.. :rolleyes:

I checked with mates at Skippers and their Metro, Bras and Dash 8 Captains would all exceed that. Mostly Mon-Fri as well.

But as soon as you get you licence you do don;t go straight to CAPT in a regional do you?

I think the point is you spend only $1000 for your licence and move straight to 70k mon-fri.