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-   -   China Southern WA (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/423287-china-southern-wa.html)

broden 6th Aug 2010 05:51

China Southern WA
 
Have heard that you have new masters and that all is not well. Was thinking of applying for an instructors position. what do you think?

P.O.M 7th Aug 2010 03:32

I have also heard that things are not well after the Cannuks joined in... :ooh:

Management changes that have removed the CFI and rumours that they have a disspensation from CASA for pilots to do more than 900hrs a year... :hmm:

Would be interesting to hear from someone what the score is...

P.O.M:ok:

broden 7th Aug 2010 03:45

So does anyone know what the money is like? I hear they have a base outside of Perth. Whats it like?

gas-chamber 7th Aug 2010 05:51

As far as instructing goes, the money was OK if you flew the hours. But I am told it has been reduced. Why not ask someone who is still there? Also ask what they think of the new management culture versus the old. Do your homework.

The Green Goblin 7th Aug 2010 06:59


Management changes that have removed the CFI and rumours that they have a disspensation from CASA for pilots to do more than 900hrs a year...
Not hard to get, most GA companies I have operated under had a part 5 exemption allowing 1000 hours per year. Catch was they were limited to 90 hours a month.

Most scenic operators in the Kimberley don't take the exemption as they need the 100 hours a month in the dry and don't get close to the 900 hours a year with the quite times in the build.

Mach E Avelli 7th Aug 2010 07:59

How can an instructor realistically do more than 900 hours of FLIGHT instruction in a year? Thinking the time it takes to brief those whose English is not that flash, then fly, then debrief, then fill in the paperwork. For every hour flown, it takes at least two on the ground to do a proper job of it. So 900 flight hours translates to 2700 duty hours. Divide by 46 working weeks comes out at 58.6 hours duty a week. If CASA condone any extension beyond 900 flight hours (given that there is also a daily limit of 6 hours instruction), they are not serious about upholding flying standards. They should also be very seriously concerned about fatigue management. Any instructor doing more than 750 flight hours a year is either not doing proper briefings and debriefings and has found a way to get out of writing up training reports, or is on some performance-enhancing pills. Can I have some too?

witwiw 7th Aug 2010 08:33


Management changes that have removed the CFI
Was that GB?

manymak 7th Aug 2010 14:35

What is the pay there now with new management?

puff 8th Aug 2010 01:21

Mach most of the 'sausage factories' have theory instructers that 'mass brief' the students so that all the instructor has to do is fly with them and de-brief - agreed that the paperwork will take sometime to do but it's not a 'strict' lesson as you do in a 'normal' school.

Still instructing is generally not a place you associate with max hours because of the extensive ground paperwork required.

43Inches 8th Aug 2010 02:02


Mach most of the 'sausage factories' have theory instructers that 'mass brief' the students so that all the instructor has to do is fly with them and de-brief - agreed that the paperwork will take sometime to do but it's not a 'strict' lesson as you do in a 'normal' school.
Thats why its called a "mass brief".

The instructor still has to conduct a pre-flight briefing on the specifics of the lesson flight and desired outcomes. After the flight the de-brief should be extensive. Even with mass briefings conducted by others you should be spending at least the same amount of time briefing/debriefing as flight time.

At schools with less structured training such as aero clubs etc the mass brief and pre-flight are sometimes combined on the day(or very abreviated). This generally leads to the student being overloaded with information which they have little time to assymilate and study prior to jumping into the aircraft (or if heavily abreviated half the flight is wasted explaining what is happening).

puff 8th Aug 2010 03:05

They 'should' 43 inches but I think most that have worked in the foreign sausage factories is the entire process is done more with $$ in mind than any real standards. CPL is just a paperwork exercise so they can head off for jet ground school - they will never fly a lightie again after MECIR flightest for most of them.

gas-chamber 8th Aug 2010 07:20

GB wasn't removed. He quit to have a vacation. CFI removed because not a complete yes man like the replacement.
Mass briefings all very well if students understand Eengrish.

stockstandard 8th Aug 2010 11:03

The base out of Perth is Merredin. And it's a hole, closely in par with that of the superpit in Kal.

broden 8th Aug 2010 11:11

Somebody said you were paid more to be there. Is it worth it?

stockstandard 8th Aug 2010 11:13

Not anymore, i hear the pay has been cut. It's not worth travelling from the eastern states, even from perth for that matter to work there.

43Inches 8th Aug 2010 11:17


the entire process is done more with $$ in mind than any real standards.
This is for management to worry about not line pilots. They will only care about the flow of students as they expect the instructor to get the students to a minimum standard in a certain time frame. The easiest way to control the quality of new students is to keep going with students until they are ready and recommend termination of the ones that are not progressing. If you don't compromise on standard they won't compromise on selection criteria, it will cost them money.


CPL is just a paperwork exercise so they can head off for jet ground school
and,


they will never fly a lightie again after MECIR flightest for most of them.
Shows the line instructors attitude towards his job, it is up to the instructor to set the standard. If you don't think a student is ready don't put them up for test.

newcomer 8th Aug 2010 15:20

CPL is just a paperwork exercise so they can head off for jet ground school

No its not, its taking away there solo privilegs making the skies safer once again

gas-chamber 9th Aug 2010 00:02

Maybe he worked for a couple outfits that went bellyup. Maybe that taught him not to put up with management crap. Maybe he is old enough to be intolerant of fools. Maybe he sees flying as an easy way to fund his sailing habit. Last word was he was retiring anyway.

Mach E Avelli 9th Aug 2010 03:28

Retirement (semi) confirmed.

ringbinder 9th Aug 2010 11:06


Maybe he worked for a couple outfits that went bellyup
Don't recall these going bust:

APNG
Air Naru (at least not in GB's time there)
Oz Jet (same comment as for Air Naru)
NJS
CASA
SAW (understand he left before their demise, but reality may be otherwise.)

Didn't he also have a stint with SQ at MCY - they're still operating.

so, possibly only Sky .................................


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