You would normally get a lot more warning than that, some engines will detonate for a considerable time before they die - depends on how well built/overbuilt the engine is for it's hp rating. I doubt the Pug would die from detonation for at least a few minutes. Diesel engines detonate by default... :}

it was not jeta1, it was not avtur! about 5 aircraft from airtex/skymaster were refuelled that morning by the same truck... with no issues!

Ok looks like that theory is out the window, what else could of it been? both engine just letting go running the egt's too high?

Jet fulel in a recip engine?
 

Many years ago, Bob Hoover had his recip engine Shrike refueled with Jet A1 at Brown Field, near the Mexican Border in Southern California: Note both engines quit after departure not far out of Brown!!! Quoted interview below:

"Mike Busch asks:

You mentioned some in-flight emergencies in the P-51. Ever had any in the Shrike?

Bob Hoover:

Mike....Yes...I participated in an event at Brown Field, and upon departing, I had been serviced with jet fuel (with recip engines) and both engines quit producing power yet completely normal readings.
I was heading north out of Brown Field, and I didn't have enough power to turn back and land, and in that area there are nothing but deep ravines, really deep....
and I pulled up at the last instant, and slammed into the side of a ravine, but I had the airplane slowed up enough so that nobody was hurt.
We hit a rock pile after about 200 feet of forward movement...but we all got out OK.

I still think jeta1 may have caused this accident its obvious that 1 engine was shut down and the other was almost dead and he seemed to be going fine untill the last few seconds

Ejet3, how about you go shove your head back wherever you pulled it out of. It is clear you are either an uninformed member of the media, or just a troll looking to stir. You have only joined recently, and only posted in this thread, and a good deal later than the event and are just repeating stuff that others have already said or asked.

Really, just go f@$k off.

Hey,
Why don't u do more research I have posted in other threads i see you have posted maybe a dozen times on this accident does this make you know it all?, I’m not some 33 year old who fly’s his desk every night :} and read every post , what do you do for a living? I bet your some second officer and just sits on guard all day stirring the pot :D and doing Jepp amendments and sucking up to the captain!
I have been reading on this thread and the previous one, I am just like everybody else and want to find out what happened this is a rumor forum isn’t what is your problem?

Ejet,

Don't you think if it was jeta1 there would be another 5 aircraft that crashed at bankstown? Did you read the preliminary report? Or is your head to far up your a** speculating and not looking at the real facts?

EJetE or whatever - You Ignoramus
 

You obnoxious little sh1t.
Could you please explain why the aircraft climbed to 7000 odd feet before the effect of your "tanks full of Jet A1" theory were evident?
I think you owe many people a deep apology.
Now is good

Like i said this is a rumor forum and that was what i heard from around the airport and the people i work with! i heard the tanks where topped off with jeta1 so whoooop1991 if u dont like what I have to say then don't read it! :}

Awwwww come on guys, everybody knows that if you accidentally put JET A1 into your MS Flight Sim Mojave, you can easily get to 7000' before anything happens... :=

:D answer that RatsoreA :8

who do you work with ejet? airtex??

Nuh mate been there done that, been in a airline now for a number of years

whooop191 had a good point,



reading the preliminary report, the ATSB noted that the aircraft was filled up with AVGAS.

Not JetA1 - AVGAS............


The investigators are not idiots - they are in fact very experienced. I am sure that they too were initially looking at what type of fuel was put into the a/c tanks. Hence the reason they noted that it was filled up with AVGAS


Not JetA1 - AVGAS..........


how are you people not getting this....???

This thread has long-since departed a discussion of any value -to anyone- and descended into the typically farcical.

It needs closed.

Second that, time to close this thread.

I never really understood these "close the thread" calls. If you don't like it, don't read it! :=:=:ugh::rolleyes:

I completely understand why people want this thread shut, I personally don't approve of speculating. The thing that is inappropriate is when people continue to speculate on issues that have already been addressed.

lets just get back on with it! it is a rumor forum! :ok:

Speaking personally and in this particular case, this thread did originally serve an admirable purpose -even if that purpose might best be described as "speculation"- in a group of (supposed) professionals trying to understand why a tragedy occurred and what might best be done to prevent a similar tragedy in future. Whilst some of the speculation within the thread has been ridiculously wide of the mark, there has been discussion of tremendous value from some participants -including yourself remoak. That's why I read the thread.

Recently however, the thread has descended into the nonsensical, with theories already disproved still being touted by trolls and respondents indulging in vicious personality attacks, apparently intended to defend the reputations of mates departed -but which serve only to damage their own reputations within these forae. That's why I called for the thread to be closed.

Like you, I have little if any faith in the investigations currently under-way exposing the full truth of the matters leading to this tragedy. Their "findings" will most likely be an appeasement to their political masters and an obfuscation of the regulatory and training factors that could potentially be an embarrassment to those charged with that responsibility. There will doubtless be a scape-goat, possibly a couple for the public "execution" and I guarantee you, no-one even peripherally involved with this tragedy will be happy with the result.

Hmmm.... point well argued, Jober!

First Principles...
 

I have been reading PPRuNe for quite some time and only since June this year have I become a registered user; I have not posted 'til now.

For newcomers to aviation and crusty old fossils alike, there is a wealth of knowledge in a common interest being shared on this international network in all sorts of aviation fields. Many of these treasures are to be found in threads of years gone by, take a look for yourselves to see the depth of knowledge on here, from New Guinea to New York, from tailwheel tire sizes to turbine hot start cycles. Much of it is not gospel but merely the writer sharing first hand knowledge, belief & experience.

Newcomers, read what the authors have to say. There is much to be learned from reading, and reading alone. As a relative newcomer here myself, there have been many times when I have been tempted to offer knowledge, advice or comment but have refrained. I am not in the industry anymore but my love for it and the unquenchable thirst for more of it cannot be denied, like some of our newer friends on here.

Things get messy when threads wander and wandering pays disrespect to both the thread starter and the topic. Reluctantly, I agree with Jober; this thread has wandered so far off it has become puerile and pointless for everyone. If one has nothing positive to contribute then why contribute?

For pharq's sake lets keep all threads on track.

You joined on the 6th of August and 60% of your posts were on this thread. This thread being one of the first two you posted on on the day you registered.

God no. But to see you continue to bring up things that have already been dismissed would indicate that you know even less.

Being an anonymous forum who would know what you are or do. And who cares. Judging by your use of spelling and grammatical errors, I would say your day job would be an anoraked semi-literate 11 year old.

Swing and a miss. Like to try another guess? I will give you hint, not even close.

I think if you think about it, that was directed at you... But Remoak can clear that one up if he wants. Not my place to say what message others were trying to convey...

And I might point out, that I am not alone in what I think about your posts.

RatsoreA is correct.

I could only shake my head in wonder when I read ejet3's response... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Okay guys I don't know why some of you are getting all hot under the collar here. Sure the jet A1 theory is probably the most remote of all but everyone is entitles to an opinion here after all PPRUNE is made up mostly of opinions in such threads.
Who really cares if ejet3 believes JetA1 is the cause it matters none to those that are somewhat brighter but by getting stuck into someone here they way some of you are achieves nothing all yr doing is adding fuel to the fire, feeding him. The more you guys post the more angry yr getting. Just ignore such comments & eventually like most other threads of this nature they die off 'till a more in depth report hits the streets.
You guys can be professional & still shake yr head in disbelief but doing it thru nasty comments proves only one thing, un-professionalism.

Relax & lets all enjoy life while we still are above ground & vertical, unlike the two that where the end result of this unfortunate accident.


Wmk2

Which one:

Virtual Airlines < Flight Simulation in the Yahoo! Directory

j3

Amen brother! Treat PPRuNe for what it is, great amusement with the occasional worthwhile discussion between peers. Not that that happens much these days, but hey, we live in hope, right?

Some of you really old hands may remember that way back in the early days of PPRuNe, there was a thread entitled "Religious Discussion" which I followed with some interest. It was interesting, informative, and did not feature giant egos, anger, belligerence, or other foolishness. It ran for weeks, allowed to do so because of the temperate nature of the discussion and the ability of the main proponents to restrain themselves, even when provoked. That thread should be found and stickied as an example of how we can behave when we put our minds to it... when discussing a topic that has started wars.

Them were the days... :cool:

HTFU Remoak .....you're sounding nostalgic, wistful and melancholy...... soft son...very soft!!!:E

Yeah... you're right... I need to harden up. Someone punch me in the head or something...

In my defence, I have traded in my normal jet for a little GA toy, and it's messing with my head. I'm mixing with these relatively inexperienced GA guys too, which can be impressive and scary all at the same time! Kind of makes me appreciate the subject of this thread a little more...

i thought this was a rumour forum? :} what else do you think would cause a engine failure, then all of a sudden loose all his altitude and the 2nd engine die?

He didn't Lose all his altitude ejet3, he threw it away!