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-   -   Help with ILS Visabiltiy?? (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/419504-help-ils-visabiltiy.html)

Artificial Horizon 6th Jul 2010 08:06

What a load of rubbish. I have worked for a big carrier in the UK and both the Captain and First Officer could carry out CAT 1 autolands at ANY airport unless prohibited by flight crew notice, they did not have to be CAT II/III equiped. There were only a few that we couldn't do it at, from memory one end at Aberdeen, Jersey etc...

Now working in Oz and NZ we can also carry out CAT 1 autolands albeit a Captain only approach (for some reason) a numerous airports that aren't CAT II approved such as Christchurch, Brisbane, Sydney, Hobart etc....

ForkTailedDrKiller 7th Jul 2010 13:24


I would fail you instantly
After having my confidence completely shattered by being "failed" on *******, I had decided to give the IFR stuff away, but I kinda got caught out tonight and had to peddle to Bo down the YBTL Rwy 01 ILS Z.

I counted 7 vertical lights and 10 horizontal lights on the HIAL, but couldn't figure out what that all meant - so I just landed anyway! :E

Dr :8


Oxidant 7th Jul 2010 19:48


What a load of rubbish. I have worked for a big carrier (Big Airways)in the UK and both the Captain and First Officer could carry out CAT 1 autolands at ANY airport unless prohibited by flight crew notice, they did not have to be CAT II/III equiped. There were only a few that we couldn't do it at, from memory one end at Aberdeen, Jersey etc...

Now working in Oz and NZ we can also carry out CAT 1 autolands albeit a Captain only approach (for some reason) a numerous airports that aren't CAT II approved such as Christchurch, Brisbane, Sydney, Hobart etc....
Yup, all correct.
My, there is a lot of drivel being spouted by some!:hmm:

Capn Bloggs 7th Jul 2010 23:40


in the UK and both the Captain and First Officer could carry out CAT 1 autolands at ANY airport unless prohibited by flight crew notice
So Oxidant, it would appear that in BA (nice addition to a different poster's quote, by the way) CAT 1 ILSs had to be approved for Autolands. Drivel indeed. :cool:

FTDK,
Nice video (obviously not a Cat 1 ILS so you need your glases checked if you saw 7 verticals:E) but pleeese, use the turbo next time. 4 minutes from 1500ft is a bit too long! I could have had my dinner and a cuppa in that time.

PS: Where was the camera mounted?

Oxidant 8th Jul 2010 00:04


So Oxidant, it would appear that in BA (nice addition to a different poster's quote, by the way) CAT 1 ILSs had to be approved for Autolands. Drivel indeed
Well, yes & no.

Airports where you could perform an autoland were annotated in the company paperwork with "L", Land,(Cat 1, 2 or 3 instalations) & "E" , evaluate (normally a Cat 1 instalation, with caveat mentioned above in previous post) or "N", No!

ForkTailedDrKiller 8th Jul 2010 01:17


FTDK,
Nice video (obviously not a Cat 1 ILS so you need your glases checked if you saw 7 verticalshttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ilies/evil.gif) but pleeese, use the turbo next time. 4 minutes from 1500ft is a bit too long! I could have had my dinner and a cuppa in that time.

Bloggsie, IAS was 120 kts until short final cause there was another aircraft on the ILS up my clacker!

What does a 737 do down the ILS?


PS: Where was the camera mounted?
That is the Mk 4 ForkMount (Patent Pending) - Mrs Dr sitting on the wing holding a video camera! :E

Dr :8

Jabawocky 8th Jul 2010 01:27

Gooday Bloggs!

I keep tellin ya them V Tails are not that quick! :E

Nice video Forkie! That must be the new improved ForkMount hey! :ok:

Capn Bloggs 8th Jul 2010 01:59

Forkie,

That is the Mk 4 ForkMount (Patent Pending) - Mrs Dr sitting on the wing holding a video camera!
May I suggest that, for the Mk 5 ForkMount, you put her on the starboard wing. That'll help with balancing up the FTDK. Also makes counting the number of approach light bars easier by not needing to fly sideways to counter the weight of you and your missus on one side. :}


Nice video Forkie! That must be the new improved ForkMount hey!
Where's the 720p? :confused:

"Get back on thread, Bloggs!" :=

Chimbu chuckles 8th Jul 2010 04:13

I lost count of lights in the first 4 seconds of vid - am I doing something wrong?

Jabawocky 8th Jul 2010 07:18

Another Instant FAIL.....:}

remoak 8th Jul 2010 12:52

Hmmm seems I caused some confusion...


I work for a company that functions under JAROPS and British CAA approvals
No, you really don't. EU-OPS and EASA look after European aviation, have done for a while now. Your airline may function under British approvals (which is essentially meaningless as EU-OPS now looks after all that), but it isn't certified under EASA, is it? As in has an AOC issued by an EASA member state?


its not the quality of the radiated LOC/GS signal as much as the protected zones that stop signal bending.
... and the flat planes that exist at either end to ensure radalt accuracy, and the different integrity checks, different shutdown delays etc.


Has it occurred to you that it just may be your company that has different, not better or worse, SOPs rather than a statutory European wide practice - or have you worked for every airline in Europe?
No, but I have worked for eight different European airlines over 25 years (as opposed to one that is simply allowed to operate there), and they all had the same SOP, which is hardly surprising. I'm not surprised that BA has a different procedure though, as they tend to be a law unto themselves - their version of a Monitored Approach is pretty unique.


Almost departed the runway - were they sitting there with their hands in their laps? I have seen the odd case of LOC bending/interference too - I just disconnected and landed.
Hard to understand how you achieve recency or re-certification without using the system with all the protections and procedures in place - certainly for re-certitication, without the protections you have no idea whether a deviation was caused by aircraft systems or ground interference with the ILS signal.

There are also issues of aircraft type involved here, but that's another story...


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