Yeah, I know, I haven't posted for a while. I don't have a job yet, but there are a couple of things in the wind at the moment. Ranging from very good opportunity if it were to happen, to unpaid flying work which I would do on a weekend basis if there were no other options (and I had another job in the area, and since if I didn't do it, someone else would!)

Am now in a bit of a bigger town, visiting people from my personal life. Have also decided that due to considerations much larger than my desire to fly, if none of the opportunities come through, I will not be sitting and withering away in a small outback town where my life wastes away. I will simply go work in my old profession somewhere where I can do flying on weekends (a couple of opportunities for that have at least presented themselves). This will allow me to still earn a decent income while getting my hours up, and also giving me an insurance policy that if flying doesn't work out, I have not burnt all my bridges. That's something which I reckon is important in general and a philosophy I intend to apply to this part of my life as much as any other. I don't believe in putting all my eggs in one basket, and I don't believe in burning bridges. I do still hope deeply that I will have the opportunity to be based somewhere away from the big towns and cities and enjoy life at the same time as enjoying flying!

Krazy,
Interesting thread.

If you end up staying in the top end, try and learn a bit more about the indigenous folk. Most pilots are pretty ignorant and don't take the opportunity to learn about much or think about much except aviation, twin hours and that airline job (ah yeah and beer). They are happy to get the hours flying indigenous people around, while they snigger about their problems with no comprehension what their life is really like and why. If you do want a bit more understanding a good place to start is this book; Why Warriors Lay Down and Die by Richard Trudgen.

Good luck with the job hunting and keep enjoying the journey!

Ok... I was told by a mate today that apparently there is close to 100 unemployed pilots sitting in Broome waiting for flying jobs to present themselves... which sounds A LOT worse than I expected.

Can anybody comment on this, confirm / deny? :{

Definitely. In fact, I actually consider being able to do that a nice little bonus of working up north!

You forgot to mention 'women' ;-) Actually, my aim at the moment isn't airlines. Flying a computer doesn't appeal to me that much. Yes, nice big and shiny does. But I am tending towards a life in a stick & rudder environment if I had my way!

I don't think it's THAT bad. I was there and if there are 100, they are hiding themselves pretty well! I would guestimate more like 20-40. But I reckon only a CP there would be able to give you a better idea.

God I hope you're right. Because if it is closer to the 100 mark... it's thrown my hopes right out the window... and will probably mean a plan change.

I know it's bad... but eh.. I guess I'll wait for somebody else to reply in regards to that rumour and see what others say - along with trying to get more info out of some 'friends of friends' in person.

Nothing like walking into an operator to visit and seeing 20 other pilots doing the exact same thing. I think the quote was "You can walk past a tree, give it a good shake and 5 pilots will fall out...."

Good reason to have been up here late last year, let alone next week (or as I read one say...May)

Unfortunately not everyone could get up there last year... I cant until early March :(

I was always generally told the hiring up there starts around late feb - march... :\

It makes no difference how many pilots are there, as only a certain number of those pilots will be employable. The secret is being one of the few who are worth employing!:ok:

There are presently about 30 pilots waiting in Kunus. Slingair are hiring 8 and are starting in the next two weeks. Alligator are looking at around the same figure and will possibly end up hiring up to 16. They are starting interviews late March.

Leos are about to hire and are doing interviews. BAS and BAV have not indicated although I believe the CP of BAV has had her hands full with a CASA audit after the Caravan engine shutdown.

There are 5 Kiwis that I know of in Kunus and they believe a certain operator does not hire Kiwis. This is not true, so i'd like to bust this myth.

I believe you'll have a 60/40 chance judging by Pilot numbers in the towns VS the jobs that will be offered.

There will be plenty of movement at the piston multi engine turboprop ranks this year so there will be good times again in the 2011 Kunus season. If you don't make it this year you will next. The last shortage was in 2006/2007 for single engine piston drivers. 5 years on 2011/2012! (we seem to work on a 5 year boom and bust cycle)

My advice is if you are doing your training this year, get it finished by years end and be ready for next year. If you miss out this year, stay in town, try and keep current somehow and you'll have a good shot the following year.

GG signing off :cool:

Oh and Krazy, a lot of guys know who you are, I'd refrain from the flying for free talk (remember how I said this industry is very small??) :ok:

I know, I'm starting to feel special :-p I also think people realise that just because I mention opportunities, it doesn't mean I am taking them up. I am of course bringing my sense of dignity and self respect into this profession with me.

I'm adding this perhaps at my own peril - but I also would never say anything on this forum that I wouldn't say publicly and put my name behind. I am not one to hide behind a vale of anonymity. Perhaps this may hurt my chances in the industry, but it is also probable that those (if any) I am hurting my chances with, are those who I would not want to work with/for.

Anyway - that's enough of a hole for now ;-)

paperbag - that's not jacking the thread - it's a very good question and would also love to hear what others have to say (always good to know this sort of thing in advance). So far I have experienced a range of technical questions (more related to Air Law than the specific aircraft) right through to the organisation/chief pilot just wanting to get to know me as a person (which is obviously important given that people skills are important when doing scenic and charter flights!)

I have also been asked a few scenario type questions. Not ones where I go away and work it out with a pen and paper, but more to see me think on my feet a little (I assume).

Have also been asked about my motivations for wanting to fly, end goals, and thoughts of living in various places while I work for the place.

So i am in the same position as Krazy et al and was planning to head north after doing the ME-CIR (i know i wont be able to use it straight away!!). Plan was to be up there in May.

Given the past comments, should i just put this off and go up now given places will be hiring!? Will i be leaving it too late heading up in May?

I think ill be another one of those CPL's hiding in the trees waiting to be shaken out!

HHH

Hey Green Goblin,

[QUOTE]There will be plenty of movement at the piston multi engine turboprop ranks this year so there will be good times again/QUOTE]

Mate I have read your posts with interest over the last few years, and you seem to be someone who has a decent idea of the industry. I hope you are right about this statement. Just wondering if you could elaborate on your reasons for this belief?

Cheers,
Greaser.

I can't quote properly...sorry

Jetstar and Virgin require 300 pilots this year. V Australia will be recruiting and I would not be surprised to see Qantas start also at some stage. There will also be attrition to overseas carriers such as NZ and Hong Kong.

Just think about that number for a moment, where are they going to come from?

There will be basically at least 300 Pilots moving out from the regionals into jets leaving a sizable hole for the Piston fellas to replace in turn leading to the entry level stuff.

There are 30 odd Pilots in Kunus waiting it out for maybe 20 Jobs. Broome usually put on around that number too. Once these guys have experience there will be 300 Multi engine jobs waiting around the country to fill and 300 turboprop jobs for the Multi engine piston Pilots to fill. There will be an instructor shortage again (of grade 1/2s) and a shortage of piston Pilots to fulfill mining requirements as guy's will not want to stick around when a jet job requires half that experience.

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out thats for sure :}

Thanks GG!

Good news for all!

Cheers,
Greaser

Hope your crystal ball is correct GG! :) What's your guestimate as to when this will all start to happen?

I presume the 2009-2010 employment problem us low hour CPLs are facing is directly related to the GFC...

I remember a few years ago hearing the whole "pilot shortage" stuff... whether it's true or not I personally don't know... but I'm under the impression it was; just that the GFC turned things around 180 degrees... can only imagine if it never occured :ooh:

Some flying schools are still sprouting this crap (and have been right through the current crisis). I have come across a few senior pilots and CPs who have the ****s with that false advertising...

1013

When I was in KNX 15+ years ago (1995-1997) I waited 18 months before I got the first job, and I leap-frogged ohers. My wait time was not unusual for that period - the recent hiring boom of 2007-2009 was unlike anything this industry has seen before.

I got my job because another guy fcuked up - then I fcuked up, and another guy got a start when I left. We have all moved on into bigger, better things - despite an inauspicious start :ok:

Blackfellas

I moved north with my girlfriend (a vegetarian GP with hairy armpits) and a heap of very liberal uni-student attitudes to the blackfellas (they aren't Kooris or Murris either, by the way). I made a lot of effort to treat everyone I met the same way, regardless of colour or creed.

12 months later I returned to Sydney for a couple of weeks and had my school mates over to Mum's for a bbq and a beer, and we went through the slides and described what we had seen and learnt about the blackfellas - remember my girlfriend was a GP doing clinics in Oombi and Kalumburu and we had learnt a LOT about these people and their culture.

...anyway a couple of my mates were dating pretty young 2nd/3rd year uni students who refused to believe us, branded us racist, and spat at us that "you country rednecks are all the same!"

Everything Onetrack has written accords closely with my observations and experience. My attitudes to the blackfellas was a fair bit more tollerant and enlightened than most of my colleagues, but even with the best of intentions the cultural chasm will wear you down.

Krazy
Good luck, well done, go well! :ok:

Nothing like the vegetarian Chardonay drinking, know it all Sydney uni student who has never been west of the Blue Mountains to save us from the evils of racism!!!

Spend a day in Port Keats, Oenpelli, Mannigrida and watch your taxes at work.

Really?

...................

People - how about keeping this thread on topic. I have had countless people say that they have found this thread useful, so rather than turning it into another pprune rant where everyone sprouts on about whatever they want, how about not doing it here. That way people who are interested in it don't have to trawl through the crap that isn't related to what they want to read. Feel free to start another thread about race relations and political issues in Australia. If you have something to say on those topics and it is related to the experience of moving up north and living there when going for your first flying job, then great. If it's simply dribbling on continuously about opinions or the like, try save it.

Hope this doesn't come across harsh. But just trying to steer things in the right direction!

Spot on Krazy :ok:

A reminder that inappropriate racist comments have no place on PPRuNe.

:mad:

Great Thread. keep posting Krazy.. il prob end up there next yr .. :ok:

hey krazy just wondering where are you at the moment?

have you visited kunnus yet?

???
 

If you get a flying job up there you will soon find that aboriginals are a very relevent factor in a pilot's life, and you will be actively involved in aboriginal affairs. Aboriginals make up a large part of the population and a still larger part of the passengers you carry. They are different and discussion about this is appropriate. But, as taily says discussion should be sensible and not offensive to anyone.
I understand that young pilots are only interested in jobs and bigger and better aeroplanes, but, if you choose to be involved in the operation of light aircraft up north, then expect to have lots of contact with aboriginals.
I remember landing a C310 at a community and finding that one of my pax wished to stay in the aeroplane. He eventually did get out, carrying one of his boots, which was full of urine.
Guess what! He was aboriginal.

What does the severely caught short passenger do if he has to go, like now! Mate had a couple of young stockmen in the back of the 182. Think he said it was on a run down to Curtin Springs. Won't repeat what he said about the stench, but he was quite impressed by the speed and agility displayed and the effective employment of a battered old Akubra

Pardon a bit of further drift, but seeing how it's Friday tomorrow -

One day Mrs Flanagan comes over all sickly and goes to the doctor. He looks her over and says, "Well now Mrs. Flanagan, I am a bit perplexed on your condition, but if you bring along a urine specimen to me in the morning, I'm sure I'll be able to tell you what's wrong."

So she goes home and says to her husband, "The doctor wants me to
bring him a urine specimen in the morning. But I don't know what he's talkin' about. What I am I going to do?"

Mr Flanagan replies, "Well you know I'm the last person to ask. Get yourself across to Mrs. O'Toole, she'll know what to do."

So Mrs Flanagan goes over to Mrs. O'Toole's place and comes back a
few minutes later with her clothes all torn, a black eye and her hair tangled like a bird's nest.

Shocked Mr Flanagan gasps, "Jesus, Mary and Joseph, woman! What
happened to ye?"

"I went over there and I asked her what a urine specimen is.
She said 'Piss in a bottle, woman.' So, I said 'Go **** in yer hat !'
And the fight was on."

Many an Irish joke here -

humor

Bushy, I'm surprised he went in his boot. Or that he took it with him.

But what you say is correct, they are the driving force behind GA in the Top End. If it wasn't for them all these young guys wouldn't have jobs, other than the few airvan jobs flying scenics. They are different to us, in their thought processes and values, just takes a bit of effort into understanding them, and life is so much easier. Seems to be to hard for alot of people to comprehend, so hell bent on telling them what to do.

Long time no write, so here's a bit of a catch up an answers to some of the questions I've been asked that I'm happy to answer in public ;-)

Firstly - after 3 weeks of hunting, and having many doors closed on me, I have been fortunate enough to 'kinda' have an opportunity. Which, after a LOT of thinking I have decided to take up until something better comes along. Thankfully, the people I'll be working for are happy with this arrangement. And I use the word 'work' a bit loosely. I'll be helping some people out doing maybe 10-20 hours a month. Paid work. Weekend work. And in the mean time I will be starting a new job in my home city down South which will provide me with an income to take care of my adult responsibilities! Something that is sorely needed after nearly 4 months of not working! On the one hand it's the best of both worlds (since the day job is a good paying job and is in my profession), on the other hand it is highly disappointing not to fulfil my dream of finding a full time flying job at this point in my life.

My time up North has made me want it even more. And actually made me really want a flying job up there - not just one based from my home city. I have always loved travelling, and now I feel the pull of the great North and will not only be trying from afar to get back there, but will be looking for jobs in my current profession up there where possible, and will be paying more visits up there to continue meeting with operators. Be it 6 months time, 12 months time, or whenever I sense an opportunity awaits me. Being able to earn an income at home in the mean time at least will afford me with that option, while still being able to gain some flying experience in the mean time, and perhaps continue with some additional flight training.

To answer some questions in the mean time:

Just got back home a couple of hours ago. Back in the (relatively) big smoke.

Yes. Not a bad town. Far from lots of places, but fascinating landscapes. Lots of pilots in wait there. Lots.


Definitely Kununurra & Broome. Darwin definitely has potential, and very possibly Jabiru. That's my honest opinion for the moment. In a month's time, things may change a bit.

Personally I didn't. But perhaps that is my downfall. I would like to think that operators employ people based on merit (eg., good pilot, good people skills to deal with customers, etc.) and not just based on the fact that you're in town or been in town for a long time. Perhaps this isn't the case (based on what other people say on here), I'm not sure. If you do plan on staying in one town, I highly recommend checking out a few towns to see which one you could see yourself staying in long term, and after meeting some pilots and the chief pilots at the local operators - which places you would definitely like to (or not like to) work.

I have done this most of the time, but not all of the time. I don't think this helped in any way apart from finding out ahead of time whether I would be wasting my time (or the chief pilot's time) by coming in and speaking to them. If a town is 500km from the next closest place you're going, and there's only one operator, and you know before you get there that they don't employ anyone with less than 500 hours due to requirements A, B & C. And you only have 200 hours, then you have an easy decision in front of you!

Kinda. Yes, but not up North at the moment. Too many other issues to consider right now, and I have a small opportunity down South which is better than nothing!

Work out a rough idea of where you plan on going and for how long first. If it's more than ~10 days AND it's a one way trip (eg., start in Darwin, end in Broome), then better to buy (money-wise). Renting has the benefit of nothing to worry about, but it gets expensive quickly. If you buy a reasonable car and sell it when you're done, you can easily get away without losing too much money on it. That's the route I took as it gave me more freedom and less to worry about.

For a new person starting out in aviation, relevant points are a bit subjective. IMHO, relevant points are not just flying related, but also things to show experience with dealing with customers, education, and demonstrating professionalism. These are the things I would think are important - others may not. Not sure.

Not that I know of!!! I'm sure people who have worked for companies would have stories to tell. But being a noobie, I don't know if there are any companies one should avoid. I can imagine some of the more experienced pilots reading this would be having a giggle to themselves....


Well - that's it for now. Long post, I know. Be well everyone!

krazy, thankyou for sharing your experiences with us. sounds like im in a similar position to you and will be looking for jobs up north later on this year. i'll be keeping an eye on this thread. good luck!:ok:

bushy, your man showed resource, presumably that's what you're implying. There used to be in the army an old nostrum about the best way to soften and break in your boots. Pig's arse. They end up smelling crook and the ammonia rots the stitching.

The way of the world
 

Krazy

I, amongst a lot of other people, have read with interest your various postings and wish you well in your future aspirations. Although I no longer have a current license, engineer and pilot, I have a great deal of sympathy for those folks wishing to get on the aviation treadmill and feel frustrated in not able to get a decent leg up the ladder. My son is in a similar position to you, and many other folks who have contributed to the thread, and I can only say that those who wish to realize their dreams will have to stick with the game plan and wait for the opportunity to arise – as it surely will one day.

However, your posts have no doubt been a valuable source of first hand information and experience for other eager guys and girls thinking along the lines of heading north, and I wish you well in your endeavors, wherever they may lead you.

Nkosi

Good for you Krazy!
 

Many inspirations through and through. Cheers for the story and good luck in the future :)

Blin

hey krazy

why was it so difficult to ge a job? was it because of your hours of experience? what are your qualifications? and what did the operators prefer?

I think the following things would have increased my probability of getting a job:

• Hanging around in a given town and continuously making it known that I'm there hoping for a position.
• An extra 100+ hours flying experience (I have just over 200). This would have opened up more opportunities (even though if may have closed a couple as well).
• Being more confident and more of a risk taker (not flying-wise, but in terms of risking my comfy life back home type thing).

I don't specifically know of people that have been hired over me. It's not like a 'standard' professional job where there is an advertisement, you apply, get shortlisted, have an interview, and then get feedback if you don't make the cut. It's more like Owen Stanley points out actually!

Thanks
 

Thanks Krazy for an excellent thread. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading about your journey.
I'll recommend it to a couple of aspiring pilots I know.

Best of luck for the future.

:ok:

Wrap some of this around your laughing gear ....

This bloke should be given a HUGE thumbs up ... All you need to know is here.

Enjoy the Kimberley , I kicked off around there ... was paid little , worked hard and slept rough but had the best time and made the closest of mates.

The Adventures of Robbo the Yobbo!


:ok::}:mad:

Krazy,

Hope all is well and good, I have been directed to this thread by a few of our peers. I have just had a chance to read it, firstly thank you for the mention you gave me. Secondly you are doing a great job, I must say welldone on your efforts and courage. Keep up the great work your doing.

Kash

Just to clear it up, Alligator will be hiring a maximum of 12 this year. The first couple of pilots will be taken on around mid to late april, with a further 6 in May and 4 late May/June.

Not sure about Slingair, all reports say around 6-8.

Splint