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-   -   Qantas Group Unity (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/384857-qantas-group-unity.html)

WoodenEye 12th Aug 2009 10:13

Qantas Group Unity
 
Absolutely delighted to read in today's edition of AIPA Insights the following extract:

An undertaking was obtained [from the company] to work collectively on career progression throughout the Qantas Group and AIPA has already commenced work on this arrangement..........this achievement was only possible with the collective assistance of the AIPA membership, and a lot of work behind the scenes from both your AIPA reps and the Company. AIPA is hopeful that the Company will keep its promise of working with us to come up with an agreement which will provide a meaningful career throughout the Qantas Group.
At long last, it looks like Qantas and all its pilots will have good reason to endorse flexibility and change that can deliver secure career progress and the most prosperity commercially achievable..

The struggle has been long & costly and at times disappointing, but at least it seems like it was worth the effort.

Bravo! :D

missing link 12th Aug 2009 12:31

You are kidding yourself woodeneye, the boys at the top are only acting now because of the threat to them by Jetconnect and Jetstar...........covering their own arses , they could have done this years ago but they were'nt under threat.... Where were they when Jetstar pilots entered the fray ....or Qlink.........Nup, more of the same , looking after themselves first and trying to look concerned for the rest.....The dinosaurs havent woken up yet .........their time is over and are a dying race. Had they been fair dinkum and had a united group years ago - none of this would be happening now
"PULL UP THE LADDER JACK I'M OK!":{

Spikey21 12th Aug 2009 12:38

I'll second that missing link, so flamin obvious and they think we are stupid enough to think they are sincere. Gross arrogance I reckon.

OneDotLow 12th Aug 2009 14:52

A significant (and ever increasing) proportion of pilots were not employed by Q at the time to which you refer missing link...

Hows about a bit of a change in attitude towards this all so that we can all improve our lot in the future???

I realise (from the constant references to "that year who's name must not be spoken" that occured when close to 50% of the current Q mainline pilots were still in school :eek:) that pilots tend to hold grudges for a while, but really don't you think its time to bury the hatchet on this one and move on???

Keg 12th Aug 2009 14:53

Spikey, missing link, seriously? The horse is well dead now. Flogging it further isn't going to achieve anything.....particularly when you think you're flogging the right horse but what you're actually flogging is a little closer to your waist. :ugh: :rolleyes:

It's been more than eight years that some of us have been on this track. Given the lack of comprehension and objectivity demonstrated by people such as you two I'm amazed that you can get to work safely let alone operate an aircraft! :*

Hopefully this will mean more opportunities for ALL group pilots.

ODL, I don't think they're referring to '89. Rather, they're referring to the Eastern's case that was being run against Australian when QF took over or even more recently, the actions of AIPA under Chris Manning back in May '01 when we bought Impulse.

Douglas Mcdonnell 12th Aug 2009 15:57

Nice one Wooden eye. Look like the unpopular kid at the end of the street has a new footy now everyone wants to be his mate. Ask the eastern gurus who inhabited the swamp around the early 2000s about unity. How about CMs attitude in Sydney in 2001? The arrogance was unbelievable. Thing have changed and now its all about helping one another. Of course it is.

Man this industry attracts the roll neck skivvy set.

Doug.

Oxidant 12th Aug 2009 19:43

At the moment, it is all just more words.......
When terms & conditions start to rise towards the Qantas EBA, for Link, J* et al, then I will congratulate all involved!
(If I have not already retired):*

Transition Layer 12th Aug 2009 21:25


When terms & conditions start to rise towards the Qantas EBA, for Link, J* et al, then I will congratulate all involved!
(If I have not already retired)
Well there's only one Pilot's Union in Australia which is any chance of achieving this, and it sure isn't the toothless tiger AFAP! Until all QLink and Jetstar drivers are AIPA members and AIPA is a signatory to their respective awards, there is little hope.

I'm not saying AIPA is perfect but if I was in QLink or Jetstar it would be a no-brainer.

Enema Bandit's Dad 12th Aug 2009 21:46

Missing Link, looking at Wooden Eye's quote it would apprear that Qantas management are equally involved. I can't see a problem with that. It seems to me like it will be good for all involved. :)

Kipper797 12th Aug 2009 22:29

Let's face it AIPA have never done anything to enhance the pilot group. They have missed opportunity after opportuniy. They have been totally ineffective as a union . AIPA is truely a toothless tiger and now it's all too late. Just remember J* are still recruiting at max speedwhile Q still gifts routes away both internationally and domestically.Makes you wonder why any Q pilots would waste money on fees- Oh unless you are in the top 200 then you are still OK :ugh:.

waren9 12th Aug 2009 23:43

I think you're out of touch Kipper. Keep watching AIPA and I think you'll see for yourself this to be the case.

OneDotLow 12th Aug 2009 23:44

Keg :


I don't think they're referring to '89. Rather, they're referring to the Eastern's case that was being run against Australian when QF took over or even more recently, the actions of AIPA under Chris Manning back in May '01 when we bought Impulse.
Yeah I know. I was using it purely as a (particularly good:p) example of how some pilots can hold a grudge for a very long period of time.

Douglas McDonnell :

How about CMs attitude in Sydney in 2001? The arrogance was unbelievable.
This is the same CM who went on to screw Q pilots over by moving from AIPA president to company chief pilot and the same CM who has now left the airline for good. How you can continue to use him as the litmus test for Q pilots proves that you possibly need a change in career... God only knows how you would cope if the bureau threw an inter on the TTF 4 hours after the TAF was issued.

Oxidant :

At the moment, it is all just more words.......
When terms & conditions start to rise towards the Qantas EBA, for Link, J* et al, then I will congratulate all involved!
Yep, just sit back and watch it happen mate. Throw peanuts and the odd comment from the sidelines, but be sure never to be constructive. Why don't you get off your lazy butt, head into the office of whatever union you are a member of, and do something to improve your lot instead of sitting by and waiting for things to get better around you. And don't tell me about that one time you headed in and graciously donated a half day of your time to the union. The time is now mate! Whether it is AIPA or not, I think it is time you gave a little rather than sitting back and waiting to receive....

Reeltime 13th Aug 2009 00:13

This is for those Qantas group pilots, not in mainline....particularly those from Qlink.

AIPA does not, and never has, controlled mainline recruitment. If you feel that you should have been offered a position in mainline, but have not...your beef is with those in charge of recruitment policy, not the membership of AIPA.

Just one more time...Qantas management does not consult with AIPA, as to who would be suitable for a position in mainline.

Oxidant 13th Aug 2009 02:38

"OneDotLow"

Mate, Irony is obviously lost on you.:rolleyes:

CaptCloudbuster 13th Aug 2009 07:51

Kipper797 said

Oh unless you are in the top 200 then you are still OK
I note in the latest AIPA Insights that the President (an A380 Capt) Barry Jackson took a flexi line to support the efforts of those junior SO's in the firing line.:D

Well done Bazza - keep this example up and the knockers won't know who to knock anymore!:ok:

Capt Kremin 13th Aug 2009 08:30

Human Nature 101: Humans tend the follow the easiest path instead of the most effective (and slightly more difficult) path.

We see it writ large here.

Exercise A:

Choose between the following two options as the most effective means of dealing with the current travails of the industry.

1. Become actively involved in the direction that your industrial organisation is taking. Be prepared to accept changing circumstances and attitudes as the industrial landscape unfolds. Form strategic alliances. Realise that the true enemy is not your fellow pilots.

OR,

2. Loudly whinge about actions taken by others in the distant past that, even though they may not have affected you directly, you can use to do nothing to advance your circumstances, rationalise your predjudices and generally play directly into the hands of consultants whose raison detre is to keep pilots from presenting a united front.

Your choice guys and girls.

blow.n.gasket 13th Aug 2009 10:01

CaptCloudbuster wrote:


"I note in the latest AIPA Insights that the President (an A380 Capt) Barry Jackson took a flexi line to support the efforts of those junior SO's in the firing line.:D

Well done Bazza - keep this example up and the knockers won't know who to knock anymore!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/thumbs.gif "
Yeah fantastic example of leadership.
One question though, how is the remuneration package for the AIPA President calculated?If there is no financial 'pain" like the rest of us are enduring then this gesture is purely stage managed theatrics.

Dragun 13th Aug 2009 12:04

TL

The only reason Qlink most pilots remain in AFAP is for access to the MBF loss of licence insurance - currently worth $550K. I'm sure if the same deal was offered through AIPA it would definitely be a no brainer. I've heard this time and time again from Qlink pilots as to the reason they haven't made the move to AIPA. It's a shame that something as relatively minor as that (i.e. something that could be changed) is the reason we haven't made a majority move to the union that is actually active in protecting the interests of its members.

For those of you whinging about AIPA, trying being a member of AFAP and calling them about a CAREER affecting issue such as this new transfer of business legislation that is set to ruin any chance of movement/employment within the group. They DID NOT CARE ONE SCRAP! AIPA on the other hand are actively pursuing it after recognising the seriousness of the situation for group pilots.

Time to move towards ONE pilot union protecting the interests of ALL Qantas group pilots and most of us know which one that is...

Nice work Barry Jackson, keep it up :ok:

missing link 13th Aug 2009 12:45

Not very smart are we.................... read the original quote again carefully

"An undertaking was obtained [from the company] to work collectively on career progression throughout the Qantas Group and AIPA has already commenced work on this arrangement..........this achievement was only possible with the collective assistance of the AIPA membership, and a lot of work behind the scenes from both your AIPA reps and the Company. AIPA is hopeful that the Company will keep its promise of working with us to come up with an agreement which will provide a meaningful career throughout the Qantas Group."
Its an UNDERTAKING, no promise .....no contract,
AIPA is HOPEFUL ..............Piss and wind gentlemen, ask yourselves if this would be happening if jetstar and jetconnect were not on the radar........................well you already know the answer !
For the record I am not an 89er, I have never applied to mainline , never will. I am happy with my little corner of the world, but it does amuse me to watch others now effected by recent events , do a complete 180 and push the "Qantas pilot Group" issue...............................Pathetic. No wonder the company lead you lot with empty rhetoric, talk about drowning men clutching at straws:yuk:

Spikey21 13th Aug 2009 14:54


AIPA is HOPEFUL ..............Piss and wind gentlemen, ask yourselves if this would be happening if jetstar and jetconnect were not on the radar........................well you already know the answer !
Spot on...


For the record I am not an 89er, I have never applied to mainline , never will. I am happy with my little corner of the world, but it does amuse me to watch others now effected by recent events , do a complete 180 and push the "Qantas pilot Group" issue...............................Pathetic.
Me neither and agree entirely, obvious to all except the formerly protected species :ugh:

The good ol QF boys of AIPA supporting a LCC, unimaginable without the threat of a good dose of reality arriving on your front doorstep with the full support of the wee laddie to be sure.


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