Investigation preliminary report :
200900296

Investigation continuing. At least it conclusively states that CTAF(R) was in effect.

Any chance we could not let this turn into a see-and-avoid argument? Gonna need some serious drugs to get that horse on its feet.

Not sure what or where you guys/girls (Death Pencil and beer bong) fly but I can say from experience that its not only not making the required radio calls but in some cases just not understanding instructions that is plaguing Parafields skies. Not to mention the lack of understanding of other aircraft performance. These incidents are not only limited to outside tower hours.

I would suggest in a number of cases it has been other pilots good lookouts that have averted accidents in the area. It would seem that in strims case the other pilot wasn't looking out, making calls or understanding strims.

As for speculations on a rumour network.... pretty sure your reading them

Nice observation frenchman... :D

I am reading them... but certainly not going to base some form of safety education/intervention on what is posted on here, as strim is hoping to do.... "Well... from what I've read on pprune...". :hmm:

This isn't the place to address the issues "plaguing Parafields skies".
Stick to the ATSB report, and do something a little more beneficial such as talking to FTA, other flying schools at PF, CASA etc. or whoever will actually make a change in how things are.

I think this is the place to spread the word to other pilots in the industry flying higher performance machines into Parafield to have eyes in the back of their head until the situation is rectified. Its spreading knowledge to people it may affect, I dare say that is making things safer.

Jeez Beer Bong, you must have the world's best scan if you've seen everything around you. :ok:

The mandatory calls are there for a reason. They are as important as a good scan is.

Beer Bong wrote:

The recent mid-air at 2RN (2 fatalities) highlights the limitations of see and avoid, and we're talking very experienced pilots involved here. I have the benefit of TCAD and it's difficult to eyeball en-route traffic at 2 MI when you know exactly where to look. At YPPF the traffic blends into suburbia and is equally as difficult to spot.

There's the expectation that radio position reports in the circuit are (within reason) accurate, however there are pilots who are dumb and stupid (or in some cases arrogant), and what they tell you may be incorrect, such as calling (and turning) BASE on downwind abeam the numbers, or the Chipmunk in a barrel roll across my downwind path at YLTV.

An added complication is understanding what the position report is actually telling you (at YPPF in particular), unless you are fluent in Singrish (no offence intended).

Surely you're not denying the importance of an informal network amongst professionals (or, in this case, a mix of pro's and students)? Rubbishing them is counter-productive, often erroneous and pilots being the quick-filtering, cut-the-bull**** collators of information they are, if there wasn't a need for it, likely it wouldn't exist. The same sorts of networks exist amongst regulation-heavy working environments like intelligence, law enforcement, emergency services, etc. Official investigations take time, as do flow-on policy changes (a coroner's investigation, even for a fairly clear-cut death, will still take around 2 years for example). People will talk and will not be in full possession of the facts, this is just reality. Saying "STFU n00b, wait for the official report" is pissing in the wind.

Even if the sum total of the gossip is 'make sure you do a decent lookout', the probability of another incident is lessened and the more we have persons close to the action in here commenting, the better off we'll all be. If everyone did it right, there'd be no need to re-iterate it, yeah? You're right that no-one should treat this site as their only source of safety info. Can't think of many people who would do that, though. What you're advocating (chat to FTA, etc.), people will likely do anyway. That informs the individual. Posting stuff on here helps with promulgating it.

Well well well... Flight Training Adelaide at it again... Bunch of bastards.. A little birdy is telling me the reason for the mid-air cover up was because one of the staff involved was on a 457 visa. Then -allegedly- the CEO himself Seof Effrican Mr PP went out on the runway to pull the damaged aircraft back to the hangar. What's wrong boys, did you get sick of getting called pilot boy and fetch coffe back at SAA? Did SHE have to show you her mamma's so she could keep her job?

Yes i have a grudge against FTA, because they will treat you like crap if you are an ozzie. Ask all the QFI's that work there. Goes on to show why the Air Safety Officer DP resigned ....

So i have a message for you , dear FTA: what goes around comes around.

QFIs?

So what's the difference between a QFI and an FI?

One can make all the "required" radio calls and still collide.

One works in GA for a living

:= Think what you like about the management and foreign influences at FTA adam210, but all the above quote indicates is your complete peurility.

OMG I can't believe I bit! :O

I think everyone knows the goings on at FTA!

I think you have to wake up Jeff:eek:

Even a quick search of the rego on uncle google will find who operates them!

Why do they bother?:confused: