IFR Terminology question
 

Hi boys and girls. I'm in sunny Perth far removed from anything like this but I've got a scenario in my head and I'm looking for some input:

IFR aeroplane taxis from Cambridge (non-controlled AD under Hobart airspace) so will need a clearance. Am I reading AIP GEN3.4 5.13.4 correctly if I assume the call is:

HB TWR, Alpha Bravo Charlie, Baron, two POB, RCVD Delta, on the ground CBG, IFR to Launceston, Request Taxi.

What about IFR from Jandakot after last light (LSALT well below top of GAAP and into PH CTR?

Thanks,

FRQ CB

And another thing. If given an RNAV SID but you don't have RNAV at what point do you start to worry that the controller has F***ed up? I had this issue during an sim session as part of an interview and it really put me right off.

FRQ CB

FRQ Charlie Bravo,

I'd say you're on the money for Cambridge. Looking at the ERSA that call would meet the requirements for what you would need to tell Hobart Tower.

For your question regarding Jandakot after last light, the departure procedure is in the ERSA. It states that if you require clearance into the Perth CTR, you must contact Perth ACD prior to taxi.

QF2 :ok:

FRQ CB

Cambridge doesn't require a taxi clearance but you do get your airways clearance from HB tower when you advise them you are taxiing.

However, for completeness, you do require a takeoff clearance from the tower before launching into the great unknown. :ok:

When HB tower is closed and C & D has become G then treat the whole place as a CTAF and talk to MB centre.

You don't need to request either traffic or a code, these should be given automatically to you by ATC regardless whether you're taxiing at an uncontrolled AD or a CTR. If they don't give it to you straight away, give them a minute - they can be busy and know you need both.

Straight away if you haven't put RNAV on your flight notification. They will only issue RNAV SID's to suitably equipped aircraft. The only way they know that is through your submission. If it's not on there, they won't issue you with any clearances requiring RNAV.

and
Why not add 'pending clearance' as well?!?!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

This is a very frustrating aspect of pprune. Pilots that don't know their stuff, giving 'authoritative' answers to requests for information.

Especially when all the info he needs is in the AIP. The full documents of which are available for free at Airservices Australia website

Rule from Jepp ATC AU-802, Air Traffic Clearances and Instructions, 2.1.5

If proposing to fly into a control area from an aerodrome located so close to the entry point that making a full position report before entry is not practicable, a clearance should be requested:
(a) at a convenient time before entering the runway for takeoff at an aerodrome can be readily established before takeoff, or

Which fits taxiing at Cambridge AD.

Jepp Airport Directory (ERSA) HOBART/Cambridge, TAS, YCBG

....Following flight notification, acft must establish radio ctc with Hobart Twr prior to taxiing, and nominate intended rwy...

The call is...
"Hobart Tower, ABC, Baron, IFR, Taxis Cambridge for Launceston, Runway 27, POB 2."

Acft must report ready. Landing/Takeoff clearance is not given. Acft must not become airborne until departure instructions are issued. Direction of turn on departure and circuit direction will be advised by ATC during twr hrs.

You dont report "Received Delta".
ATIS Delta is nominating runways at another aerodrome which you are not departing from, or inbound to. YOU tell THEM which runway you intend to use at Cambridge.

:ok:

Airport Directory PERTH (Jandakot), WA (Certified) YPJT

Flights planned to enter PH CTR/CTA must obtain SSR code and ATC freq from PER ACD 132.95

Prior to taxi. It is practicable to make a report prior to entering PH CTR/CTA so you get airborne YPJT and report prior to entry PH giving position and..
'... request clearance'

Its all in the (free) book.

In general....

You DONT 'request traffic'.
The bloke/blokette in the tower is a professional ATS officer that knows and is checked on their SOP and AIP requirements. They know darn well what they must tell you when you make the call.

You DONT make 'friendly' calls advising of impending requests.
It is a guarded ATS frequency. You are an IFR flight that put a plan in with an ETD. If you were not going to taxi at or around your notified ETD, you are supposed to tell them. In short, they are EXPECTING the call!

There is only one exception, and one exception only - a requirement to advise impending IFR position reports only (Jepp ATC AU-801, Operations To/From Non-Towered Aerodromes, 1.3).

Not for departures, not for clearances, not for level changes. Just IFR position reports. Period.

Just get on the radio and say what you have to say, then stop.

Read the local procedures.

If you are on pprune, you have FREE ACCESS to the full AIP at Airservices Australia. The old PPL excuse of 'so expensive to keep documents up to date' no longer washes.

Don't add stuff.

Don't make stuff up.

Don't read back everything:rolleyes:

By all means, challenge my interpretation. But base your challenge on RULES, not what 'feels good.'

A classic quote Mr Stanley! Love it!:ok:

Why "Baron" if your call is to HB Twr? Its on your plan!

One might also argue why "POB 2", as that is also generally on your plan. The only place I fly where they seem to want POB in a call is Townsville - and I figure that's cause its joint RAAF/Civil with RAAF looking after Ground, Tower and Approach!

Dr :8

Copied no IFR controller angst! Well maybe a little...:E

I agree 100%!:ok:

Doc
and
Because it's in the regs:

Controlled
[flight number] [aircraft type]
[wake turbulence category if “Super or Heavy”]
[POB] RECEIVED (ATIS identification)
[SQUAWK (SSR code)] [aircraft location] [flight rules, if IFR]
[TO (aerodrome of destination)] REQUESTTAXI [intentions]

Non controlled
(aircraft type) [POB] [IFR (if operating IFR)]
TAXIING (location) FOR (destination or intentions) RUNWAY (number)
:ok::ok:

Thanks all. I'm getting ready early for my first renewal. I did my initial only back in Jan but I've done so little flying in CTA since then that it's almost like learning for the first time.

I've been tempted to buy Aviation Theory Centre's answer to ASA's VFG called the IFG but I know that as a pro pilot I really should just use the Regs and Pubs (and maybe get some pointers here too).

FRQ CB

PS How I wish I had Microsoft Flight Sim when I did my initial. For anybody doing theirs I highly recommend using it (and use the autopilot to overcome the twitchy-ness of PC flying or at least to trim the aeroplane for you). Pretty affordable too at the price of about 3 landing fees or 0.3 hrs Dual for the software and 10-button joystick (right-handed, no rudder pedals and only one throttle control). I digress.

Skippers???
 

Hey there FRQ Charlie Bravo- you have lots of interesting questions there! Me thinx you might really be one of those Skippers Pilots tucked away down there in perth! Kepp up the good work!

Taxis, Enters, Backtracks, Lines Up, Rolls, Departs, Joins, Finals...

This **** should be thrown in the same bin as "pending clearance".

If someone finds 'taxis' (or any of the abovementioned) in the AIP under standard phraseology please let me know... :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Square Brackets
 

Aha! Methinks a good read of Gen is required. Square Brackets are different to curvy ones in AIP.

4.2.1 Symbols and Parentheses
Words in parentheses “( )” indicate that specific information, such
as a level, a place, or a time, etc, must be inserted to complete the
phrase, or alternatively, that optional phrases may be used.
Words in square parentheses “[ ]” indicate optional additional
words or information that may be necessary in specific instances. :)
J