Buying a plane......
 

Hey guys,

Now everyone i know thinks I'm out of my mind for wanting to buy a plane but rentals aren't exactly readily available up here.

So i just want to have a look and see whats involved etc, might end up not buying anything for a few years but i want to see the process involved etc :)

First of all, where does one start? i know a couple of people who have bought planes but both have been purchased overseas and i only want to buy from within Aussie.

What are some websites to look at?

What should i be looking for? and what should i watch out for?

How old its too old?

Also ive spoken to a few other people and they have all said consider a Jabiru as alot of flight schools are using them and they are cheap and good quality. thoughts etc on the Jabiru?

One last question.....Finance, do you go to a bank and ask for a "plane" loan or do the manufacturers assist with that part if you go through them? is there any finance company's that assist with this sort of stuff?

Help much appreciated, as i said just interested to see whats involved and whats out there! Also if its a stupid thing to go buy a plane and get insurance etc etc please tell me!

:ok:

Edit: Budget would prob be under 50k! less is best!

Pilotdude, you say budget is under $50K so I guess that rules out a G550:E

In order to be of any help, especially since you have asked about specific airframe/s then we would need to know what you want it for. Are you happy with a Recreational aircraft or do you want GA? Do you want to put it on line with a school? Is there a market for this where you are?

Capital cost of the aircraft is one thing, maintaining it and operating it are a whole different set of figures. Let us know what flying you intend to do and poeple may be able to help a little more.

Cheers
Mr B

At this stage it would only be for recreational flying around the bush etc.

But can you actually lease it out to a flying school? if so that could be an option later on.

Cheers :)



As i said to one person today, you spend 50k on a boat, i spend 50k on a plane :D but then i guess i pay way more $$$ in operational costs!

Packet of Bex, a nice cup of tea and a long lie down until the feeling passes, would be far cheaper!

Your proposed purchase price indicates you favour the "Aircraft Buy Now, Pay Later" program.

$50,000 aircraft now, another $50,000 plus very soon after in maintenance, engine and prop overhaul. Sadly, the is no such thing as a bargain aeroplane!

hey 'pilotdude09' you might want to tag along on the thread I started recently regarding buying a plane, albiet either a C172 or Cherokee but you may find out something about others along the way:ok:


CW

Pilotdude09,

For what you want to do, have a look at a new Jabiru.
If you are mechanicly minded the ultralight Jabiru is the cheapest option - under 70K flyaway I think.

I would avoid putting any aircraft on line until you have gained a lot more knoweledge of aircraft and the costs involved.

Dude - not that I want to spoil your fun. Every aircraft is expensive to run unless you cut corners.

"If it flys, floats or fornicates it is cheaper to rent it"

Make sure the Thronomister gaskets have been inspected :hmm:

Bloody L, if you're looking for a plane, Bunnings would be the place to go...

If it's an aircraft you are after, that's a whole 'nother story.

pet hate of mine :)

What about a quick build RV7/8/7a/8a kit. You could end up with a very fast, all metal, mildly aerobatic, very sexy, efficient 2 seat tourer...which you can maintain yourself if you're so inclined.

Last time I looked Chimbu them things ran out at about 250 grand

Tinny,
RV7/8 would are not much more than 100K for a nicely equipped conventionly panelled aircraft. About AUD$36000 for the QB kit, $40K for a new engine, 15K for avionics and $10K for paint and finishing (plus 2000+hrs of your time!). Oh yeah add in $3-4K for tools, but you can sell them or amortise your cost across building your next aircraft!!!!

An RV10 on the other hand (Vans 4 seat tourer) are being advertised completed for $250K plus!

Cheers
Mr B.

A Jabiru would fit the bill nicely for you.

$50k will get you an older LSA 55 with a good new'ish engine.

$58k will get you a brand new J120 2 seater with top end overhaul time of 1,000 and bottom end 2,000 with 500 kg's MTOW. Cruise on around 98 knots.

J160's new are $75k, cruise the same, but 135 litre wet wings and larger cabin area.

J230 for $93k, 6 cylinder, cruise on 120 knots, RA or GA night registered and NVFR in GA rego.


Compared to a so called "REAL" aircraft running costs could be less than half, especially for a new machine.

Tinny

when the dollar was weaker you would pay around $250K for a fully IFR well kitted RV-10.........and thats the best there is in any 4 seater.

Reckon now its down around $200K for one.

RV7's are probably $140K for a flash one

J:ok:

If your credit worthy banks shouldn't have to much problem with a 50/50 deal.

DON'T BY A GA AIRCRAFT, NO WAY, NO HOW, NEVER!!! If 50k is your budget.

The sooner those aging old GA drag buckets are recycled into cheap nasty Chinese frying pans the better the world will be.

As much as I would like to I just can't ignore those wretched Jabiru's and there smarmy owners who go on and on about only burning 13 L/hr doing 100 kts every where, and never paying landing fees.

They band together and fly all over the country in large happy laughing groups with total disregard to all those GA owners who have to pay and pay and pay just to go to the same places 5% quicker and when they arrive they then break down and have to pay and pay again till a LAME fixes their crook mag or changes a flat tyre. Whilst those annoying little Jabiru's just keep flying along in some self maintained euphoric bubble. And never so much as moments regard to the critically important governance of the safety regulator.

Walking past a Jabiru or similar to buy an old piper or Cessna is like walking past a Subaru WRX to buy Belarus tractor when your in the market for a sporty shopping car.

Could hurt myself getting down from this soap box.

modern IFR platform
 

I'd love to go the Jabiru way, but I haven't found a modern IFR single yet that I can pick up for around 100k with good engine and avionics..

Anyone know anything about upcoming alternatives?

Youngmic
with those sentiments about the old corrosion buckets you will send this poor LAME broke if that ever happens.
I am still happy working in the dark continent on old Twotters and B1900D! The sudden rash of cooked PT6's is keeping me gainfully employed. Thank goodness we do not have a fleet with TPE331!!! There is a SC7 rotting on the tarmac here though.

Pilotdude09.
DO NOT EVER BUY A CHEAP AIRCRAFT WITH FINANCE as the LAME will eventually own it while you are still paying it off. The AD's will surely catch you out and a stuffed engine for whatever reason is the finish as it will generally cost you more than the aircraft will be worth. I could go on but I do hope you get the drift.

G'day G,

The sultan of Oman will go broke before you ever do:ok:

TPE331's are like cooking a good steak, but some seem to insist on doing them well done, god knows why.

Youngmic, your post is an absolute classic and made me laugh. The euphoric bubble comment is a gem.

What you say is 100% true though...

The truth is that Jabs do do 100 knots on around 13-14 litres an hour, they ARE cheap to run, they ARE just as safe when maintained as their bigger GA brothers, they GREAT fun and really are the WRX of the skies comparitively speaking. The J230 / J430 model is in comparison the 3.0R Liberty, bigger with more room and 6 cylinders.

A J230 will cost sub $100k brand new factory built and a bit more for a certified NVFR 2 seater model. If you don't mind amateur built, you can build your own or "factory assist" with a full IFR setup with constant speed prop etc and have 4 seats and a payload of around 390 kg - impressive, then cruise at 120 knots on 23-24 lph.

Both types, small and large are impressive performers and there's no denying that. As far as longjevity goes, there are models out there with 5,000+ hours on airframe, however these are rare as they haven't been around long enough, so you can't complain about ruggedness just yet for what is essentially an unknown.

youngmic + vh-xxx

You silly silly boys or girls.
you are both surely living in the deluded faith that these ultralights will still be flying around when the old $hitter cessnas, pipers and beeches wont be:}.

dont get me wrong the ultralight scene is great but the G.A machines of the 60's will take some killing yet.

Yes they are cheaper to run and great for going for a jolly, but the REAL Machines will still not be outdone in load, speed, and their general robust design all at once. you guys are comparing apples and oranges.