ADS-B and Terrorism – Not a Red Herring
 

Readers will no doubt remember a while ago I made statements in relation to ADS-B being used by terrorists and also others “spoofing” the system to stop it operating correctly. I made the point that these issues should be addressed before Airservices Australia goes ahead and leads the world on ADS-B.

I have recently seen the following comment on the internationally recognised aviation news resource AVweb, see the link here. Particularly note the comment:

Isn’t it interesting how Airservices Australia seems to have gone very quiet on their ADS-B proposal?

ADSB is still being rolled out and used. It is without doubt the most useful addition to ATC that I have ever experienced. The sooner they let us use it like a radar the better. It is top notch and when in full swing, will be a massive saving to for levels and other requests over the GAFA. An aircraft Adelaide for Darwin or points north is under ATC surveilance the entire way to the northern FIR boundary.

Dick, this may help.

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

Plazbot, what about the hugely promoted low level ADSB proposal? Whats the bet thats it's been abandoned as proposed.

Why would you want low level ADSB? I thought you were all for flying no radio, no transponder, playing classical music while you see and avoid. Low Level ADSB sounds like an unnecessary cost to General Aviation. Surely you must agree, as an advocate of user pays.

Plazbot, the low level ADSB proposal was originated by AA. I have never supported the proposal as I cannot see what safety issue it is addressing. Do you realise a small fortune has been spent and if the proposal does not go ahead it will all be wasted? This money could have employed more controllers.

And by the way- I introduced transponder requirements for GA aircraft in Australia that no other country has!

So lets get this right, a proposal, that you think was bad, has been abandoned, and you think it is bad?:rolleyes:


So this would mean that the NAS you propose is not actually the same as the US version then.:rolleyes:

As everyone knows it has extra safety features in relation to transponders and radio for GA -as agreed to so that GA could obtain some of the efficiencies of the proven North American system

As per C over D, if they don't need the extra transponder requirement in the US, then why here? Why one and not the other? You claim to pick a proven concept and implement and this is why you are financially successful. As everyone knows, it is obvious that the airspace system you attempted to have implemented was not the same hence why it has failed and the attempt has wasted tens of millions of dollars that could have funded more important things like, oh, I don't know, say anti terrorist measures or something..... no one like a stinking terrorist.

Plazbot, the so called "wasted tens of millions of dollars" cost you and your collegues,not me.
So I guess Karma worked in this case

You can continue to unintentionally destroy your industry by not copying the best from around the world. It won't effect the amount of flying I do or my personal income .

One day some "young turks" will come along and introduce the necessary change and aviation in Australia will boom as it should!

Dick's post refers to this article-AvWeb ADS-B

Yet, on today's AvWeb ADS-B wins the Collier Prize.

AvFlash Top News

The Collier prize The US groups are having their grumbles about who is paying for the installs the same as here. The standards to be set and whether the final system will actually recognise the early adopters or whether they will have to get a complete new upgrade when the final system is installed.

On the subject of ADF aircraft not wishing to announce to the world (electronically) where they are... what if ADF aircraft were to squit a daily changing, random Flight ID instead of a unique hexadecimal code...?

Personally, I want Dick to demonstrate his hypothesis. I am very sceptical about whether or not it is possible. If it is true then a demonstration will reveal where the flaws are. If it is BS then...well I think Dick can work that out.

In the not wanting to be seen catagorie, I suppose we had better include all coast watch, customs and police aircraft.

Flying Binghi,

You could also add that pilot who flew the Aztec into Jandakot last week!
I'll bet he didn't want to be seen either.:}

What's wrong with you people? Haven't you all seen Die Hard 2???:=

I think Flying High sums this rubbish up better:zzz:

Islander, a good point you raise. Crims useing aircraft for their dirty deeds will not have the ADS-B turned on.

Buster, I havnt seen die hard one yet.

Flying Spike, If I recall corectly Dick Smith started out in an electronics shop - I imagine he's got a fair idea of electronic type stuff.
Edit - Flying Spike, where you gone :confused:


Good question DH.


Re the Collier prize referenced in Ozbusdrivers post. Have a look at the list of sponsors to the NAA - it may get some thinking.
It would be nice to know the composition of the Collier prize voteing panel.


This thread is ADS-B and Terrorism, but I'd ask again some of the questions covered in depth in other ADS-B threads -
It would be interesting to know the true cost of a fully GPS based ADS-B airnav system in Aus. How many GPS satilites are needed for Aus airspace and how often replaced, how many ground repeater stations will be needed for full ground up use, and to prevent hacking, how much protection will be needed for the ground stations - will we need troops/police at all ADS-B ground stations? And what is the backup for sun spot activity GPS outages?

Flying Binghi, all Dick has to do to make a believer of me is just do one successful spoof of at least ten targets at the same time and have them register within TAAATS as legitimate targets. I will be happy to go away and mind my own business.

I too have read all the negative sites found in the US. Until the terrorists get an ability to make and launch very sophisticated missles that have never even been invented. It is one thing to come up with the idea of a missle with a seaker head that will detect and read a unique ADS-B signal and then home in on that signal and an altogether different thing to actually build it. You have got a far better chance as a terrorist to go and buy a Dick Smith scanner and some black market obtained ex-military gear like a stinger or an RPG and a bit of intel when your target is going to be arriving in a safe area.

There is already a problem in the US where industrial spies are keeping tabs on certain corporate aircraft to know when the opposition is on the move and to where. So what if there is another tool to do this. The goal is to get a more affordable system into THIS country! Covering as much territory as possible. The Pilbera will be a good starting point followed by a large swathe of WA followed by replacing the en-route SSRs. Terminal primary radar and SSR will always remain.

I am pretty sure the DoD has a similar wearyness of Google Earth!

OH - -MY --GOD. The stupidity hurts my head, truly it does.:ugh:

The consequence of no surveillance over most of our wide brown land is that aircraft are required to announce their positions at convenient intervals via their R-A-D-I-O.

Any terrorist or lamo plane spotter can currently locate these aircraft just by listening to their cut price chinese manufactured scanner they can then "spoof" the system by broadcasting on VHF. Terror in the skies eh? Maybe I should put out a press release.

The threat is not that imaginary terrorists MIGHT see where the aeroplanes are but that we - ATC - are struggling to keep up with the surging traffic levels in some parts of the country when we CAN'T.

ADS-B is our first best hope to introduce something resembling a first world ATC service outside the YMML-YSSY-YBBN corridor. The fact that this sort of ridiculous, ignorant, sensationalist garbage may further delay or hinder the introduction of something that is urgently required makes me want to :yuk:

To those who would pat themselves on the back for their part in delaying the further roll out of ADS-B, shame on you.