Can someone briefly elaborate on the new VFR route running to the north of AVV? Where does it start and end please?

I hope you are not relying on a description here as against buying a chart :hmm:

It runs from vehicle testing ground in the west, and the golf course about 4 miles west of PCK, with a slight dogleg in the middle to provide clearance from the AVV zone, hence the mag tracks on the VTC.

Jeez guys, get back on track.

Dick asked a simple question - what is the PRIMARY radar coverage in the Avalon area.

I KNOW that Airservices has the required data - I have SEEN the radar coverage diagrams - in fact, if Dick was to go back through information given to him as far back as 1996, he would also recall that Airservices has the data. He might also remember that a former American [ex FAA] CEO sat opposite a Liberal Minister of Transport with those very radar coverage diagrams back in 1996 and 1997 [I was there, Dick was there, Bill was there, the Minister was there].

The FACT is that whilst there is good SSR coverage to GL around Avalon, the Primary Radar coverage around Avalon is patchy [at best] below 1500 feet.

This is NOT conducive to good remote ATC services.

The FACT remains that if the FAA towers establishment and disestablishment criteria [so dear to AsA'sa and CASA's hearts over the years] were applied based on KNOWN primary radar coverage deficiency, a tower at Avalon WOULD be required.

PUT staff in the bloody tower and get on with it!! [if ASA can find them, given that they can't even staff a basic night duty roster!!!!!]

They could train up some redundent Flightwatchers maybe:}

Sounds like Dick is onto something, again needing attention, so lets get behind it again.

J

Traffic is ... um... a Kenworth tracking in a south westerly direction, just north of the field, groundspeed approximately 50 knots???

WELLCONCERNED, thanks for your post. I can remember seeing some radar coverage diagrams many years ago, however unfortunately I do not have a copy of them – maybe I was never given a copy.

The problem I see is that the people in the Office of Airspace Regulation at CASA have accepted the advice in relation to radar coverage that has been given to them by Airservices Australia. I can understand this, but I believe they will have to be more sceptical in the future.

Everyone had high hopes that by moving the airspace regulation out of Airservices Australia, there would be a far more objective team looking at these issues. So far it doesn’t look as if this is happening.

It is interesting that the letter written by the President of Civil Air (the air traffic controllers’ union) to the new Minister also confirms the failure of CASA to take action in relation to the shortage of controllers, fatigue, and controllers operating sectors when they do not hold the correct qualifications.

Don’t hold your breath for CASA to do something at the present time – it is obvious that the good people in CASA believe their career prospects would be jeopardised if they stood up to this important issue.

If I can do anything to help I would be delighted to assist. After all, as has been pointed out many times on this site, I do not have a career in aviation – and that does have some advantages in relation to standing up for important issues.

Avalon Tower
 

Many moons ago there was a Zone at AMAV [I did say many moons ago], SFC to 2500. I believe the frequency was 120.1 and staffing was 1400 hr daily. However the Bean Counters and the AFFORDABLE SAFETY lobby decided it was no longer necessary. My how the worm has turned.!!!!!!!

With JST, Sharpe (couple of times a day), local traffic and the new lite Int' terminal being built/proposed by Mr Fox (no doubt for Go Cat's use), the TWR needs to be open.... It is there, heck all they need is a few stools, a new comms panel, reburbished dish and 14 man hrs a day!

AsA needs to use their brains. What ever happened to the message "Safety first".....

Dick, as for primary range, I honestly cant answer you on that one but sure as hell back the use of common sense!

Steve.

And find 4-5 staff Wesky... Hard enough to man current facilities.

Dick, as for helping, I'm sure you know exactly who to call to fix the problems and who to call for 'real' information about the problems; good luck.

You do raise a good point.

AsA will sort their garbage out one day.

Lets hope safety starts to take some precedence over operational costs :uhoh:. Before you know it, MEL-SY will be the only route with an ATS.

Steve.

Primary
 

Dick,

Unless the Mode C is on, you couldn't tell hpw high the acft is without an organised trial.

I've looked at radar screens in the ML area for many years. The only predictability about primary radar returns is the unpredictability of coverage on any given day.
In the old days we had some input into the equipment parameters in order to reduce weather, angels, and second time round returns, as well as increase detection in some areas.
Now the whole shebang is homogenised, and as far as I know, ATC has little say in real time equipment setting.
All I know for sure is that we get primary returns from trains to the south east of Rockbank, trucks on the City Link freeway near Bolte Bridge, occasional freeway traffic near EN,
birds from time to time, and angels from the north in strong northerly winds.. But when you want the machine to show an aircraft primary return between Westgate and the city, it won't.
There are dodgy detection areas all over the place, and these areas will mainly be unpredictable in their location.

Regardless of the terminology, why is it that "Control Services are Terminated" as I am on descent through 8,500' , when I know that my transponder is able to be picked up soon after take-off on the return leg ?(YBNA)

mention1: because control service terminated refers to the fact that you are no longer in controlled airspace. You are still under radar surveillance, but not in CTA. ATC can still see you but not give you control instructions.

Cheers,

NFR.

What is happening with the Control Tower returning to operation at AVV??. Recently, JQ have doing up to 22 movements a day out of YMAV, so why isn't it manned, well who knows:bored: I have left countless messages for JQ Managment/Avalon Managment, but nobody seems to want to answer me.

Safety needs to come first down at Avalon. Living 5mins to Avalon myself, it does worry me on occasions when there is 2 A320's on Approach/Climb, and there is all sorts of other traffic floating by. There has been posts on here about incorrect radio calls, the fact this has happened means there is chances of problems arising, and who could possibly stop this. I most certianly do witness close encounters over YMAV airspace and it just dosn't suprise me half the time. What happens if someone is on the wrong frequency by accident?? Who is there at Avalon to stop collisions?? What really frustrates me is that they will use the tower when QF send something down, but when JQ potentially flies nearly 4000 people in and out of YMAV, there is not a person is sight in that tower.

In the end, who cares if JQ need to add a few dollars onto each fare, they are still cheap to the consumer, and at least safety is somewhat improved. I have the Geelong Advertisier on my side, mabye its only a matter of a few PR threats for them to take action?. Westaway and Anderson just wont seem to budge on this, but something NEEDS to be done..

or is it going to take an accident for occur before action to be considered?? Its a joke at the moment, and I cant believe Avalon operates the way it does. I refuse to use it, no matter how close I live, lets hope the message is given, sooner rather than later.

Rgds
Sunstar

Sunstar 320, AVV airport tower is now 'manned' to an extent with CAGRS ( a basic information service ,like Ayers Rock at the moment) and has been functioning since December 2nd this year with a NOTAM released prior.

Qantas rarely have the tower 'manned' anymore, for a while anyway-only when heavy freighters turn-up.

CAGRS does NOT solve the problem.

Until the manning issues for Avalon Tower are sorted out, why not lower the base of Class 'C' airspace to ground level within the lateral limits of the AVV CTR. Take off and landing would remain uncontrolled, but everything else would be.

Once it's promulgated , it would eliminate the conflicts that continually occur for arrivals and departures at Avalon.

JQ has cut YMAV flights by 1/5 it was reported today (The Age)

Both TWR & CA/GRS are/will be operating @ AV; CA/GRS outside TWR hours. Class C is controlled airspace. You can't have part of it controlled and part not.