Clearly the blame lies with Airservices, they need to build more airspace for us to fly in. :hmm:

It is strange that all the FIFO companies keep telling their clients that they can have 0600-0630 departures out of PH and then end up having to explain why they are always late. Why not just stagger them? How about 0530 through to 0730?

The real pain is when only 21 or 03 or 24 or any single runway is in use, that really hurts. How about some right turns off 21 for the jets? I know, I know, noise...:ugh:

Serious?
 

Are you seriously saying you cannot handle 10 departures in 30 minutes??

Yep the 1900's are opeated by Ad-Astral, I don't know about the Cheyenne though I may be wrong.

From memory the current fleet status at Ad-Astral is:

1 x Beech 1900D
1 x Beech 1900C
1 x Beech C90 (Corporate Configured)
1 x Beech 200 (Heard rumours they were acquiring them and there website)
1 x Cessna 310 (Pilot training)

You have missed the point. I am not saying I can't handle 10 departures in 30 minutes, my point is that it has gone from 2 or 3 departures prior to 6am to 10 or more, where is it going to stop. Anyone can see that with 50-60 aircraft wanting to depart within 2 hours, some aircraft are going to be delayed.
BTW 10 departures in 30 minutes does not mean one every 3 minutes, it would be wonderful if the world worked that way, I'm not sure of the exact spread because I was too busy working.

Icarus, there are right turns for the jets off 21 to GEL, MRW and POMOT as well as the UAE flight.
It's good that there is an understanding that single runway hurts us as much as its hurts the pilots, especially single runway in IMC!

West ATC you maybe can answer this. When will RNAV become mandatory to operate around Perth and Brisbane etc? Until they find themselves stuck in a holding pattern on a daily basis while the RNAV machines go ahead every time, some operators will never fit it.

Couple of things:
1 x ATC for ACd & SMC before 5:30 local is not prefered. Sadly ATC have bean counters running the show as well.
Ad -Astral are running a Duchess for training - did not see that on the list. Gets plenty of work as well.
Dont know how the Dec 01 A320 service is going to work when the acft are yet to arrive in YPPH
Pressure needs to be placed upon WAC to get on with improving the airport as a whole. Very poor investment in infrastrucutre over the last few years is contirbuting to problems all around the airport. From the car park to the aprons.
Departures are primarily limited by the separation requirments of the adjacent sectors airpsace. Unlike the east coast there is no J curve of radar coverage. The 3nm to 6nm (depending on type blah blah) has to be turned into 10nm by 30nm odd. With the great chunks of airpsace taken up for the RAAF to play Captain Biggles with the PC9 & Hawks in, civil guys have to wear the delays
Apart form that - its all good :cool:

does anybody know if the rumours *and i reapear RUMOURS* i have heard about skywest going domestic (from what i heard, most capital cities) are true or not?
cheers,

Yes completely true. They start A320 services to Sydney and Melbourne on Dec 1. Hang on a minute....:rolleyes:

Yes they must think that becoming Compass Mark 3 would be a good idea.

Compass Mark 3 might be a bit off the mark, maybe the release below provides a hint or two??

Advent Air Limited Appoints New Head of Business Development
PERTH, Australia--(BUSINESS WIRE)--
ADVENT AIR LIMITED
("Advent Air" or the "Company")

The Board of Advent Air, which owns and operates Western Australian based Skywest Airlines, announces developments in respect to the appointment of a senior executive Mr Hugh Davin as the Head of Business Development.
Mr Davin is one of Western Australia’s most respected aviation figures and will be responsible for further developing Skywest’s resource sector charter business, driven by the State’s and mining resources boom.
Skywest chairman Jeff Chatfield said “Hugh is without doubt one of Western Australia’s most respected and experienced aviation professionals and will be a great asset to out team,” Mr Chatfield said.
Mr Chatfield went further to say that “resource Charter is a key component of our business strategy at the moment.”
Skywest recently announced the purchase of its 7th Fokker 50 type aircraft which is expected to enter operation within a month. This plane will be available for mining and resource sector charter opportunities.

Huh a 7th Fokker 50?????????????? where are they going to put that now.......

Is Skywest going to become like Airlines of Western Australia once was with there extensive route network?

Any ideas to where they are getting the other Fokker 50 from?

Hey its the 4th of December now, did they forget about the daylight savings?

Looking forward to seeing him OUT the team, there must be some worried staff! :)

My refernce to Compass 3 was in response to PER210's post about Skwest going full network domestic. I don't think that they are that silly.:cool:

Clearly they have been threatening to get back in to FIFO for quite a while. However they have to be better at it than Network, Skippers, National Jet, Maroomba, Alliance and soon Ozjet if they wish to either steal a contract or create a "new" one.

Does anyone know how long these FIFO contracts tend to be locked up for?

There is no doubt that Hugh IS one of Western Australias most respected aviation figures, they are as a breed fairly thin on the ground. One wonders given their heavier grunt why NJS were unable to keep him.

It is a win for Skywest but it will only work for them if they listen hard and let him get on with it.:ok:

Icarus2001

Problem No.1 for FIFO ops is getting the mines to change their shift changeover patterns to spread departures and arrivals over the day, then it is starting to become possible to do the same amount of work with half the number of aircraft and ease the congestion at peak times.

Problem No.2 for FIFO ops is getting the mines to change their shift changeover patterns to spread departures and arrivals over the day, then it is starting to become possible to do the same amount of work with half the number of aircraft and ease thge congestion at peak times.

Problem No.3, see Problem No. 2 above.

So who is going to lead that charge given the unsustainable levels of competition at Perth.

One seriously obvious solution is to meet the miners FIFO manpower resource problem by relocating ops from "Perth" to the population centres where the miners want to or already live. The miners might have to do a bit of work, and it's not hard, with their staff but penny to a pound they will get a positive response.

Say Busselton, which has a brilliant Airport or Bunbury who could have had were they not misled by greedy local interests.
Any how Busselton is only the same dist in time from Bunbury as any of the Perth suburbs and reaches deeper into the southern catchment area.
Two/three weeks on one of in the SW playing, surfing, what a life.?:cool: :)

Apparently Ozjet were able to convince their potential clients at the time to change their shift change times to make the three morning flights viable.
That is a VERY BIG IF.

The question remains how can they break in to FIFO if all of the contracts are tied up?

Changing the schedules would help a lot around Perth but you could end up with more nose-to-nose scenarios out in the boonies.

Have seen a regular flight operating BUN-NRV-BUN - might be the beginnings of regional FIFO?

Due to increase price of living in Perth.....and now a skills shortage, expect to see some changes in the WA Resource FIFO scope.

Something similiar to Alliance flying BNE-TEF rtn.

Watch this space.

Interestingly, one of the biggest FIFO contracts in WA is up for retender in Feb. Jet operators are licking there lips at this one.

XR,

What FIFO contract would that be??

Moving on a little, has anyone heard from OzJet regarding a start date?

A1

Possibly Murrin?

Skystar, the other F50 is coming from Denim Air.

Knackers

IMHO if nobody is actively pursuing regional FIFO big time then they are just not paying attention.:zzz:

What about MAC. They have recently sealed their RWY.
CNF are lengthening their RWY and if they seal it it may be suitable for jets. I wonder if the writing is on the wall there :eek: .

Just speculating, but could the TEF contract be up for retender??

Yeah, TEF for Newcrest is the one.

From what I hear, Alliance are bringing their 3rd jet to perth about the same time the contract is up with NJS.

skywest xr, check your pms

Ozjet did 2 charter movements out of ypph in the last few weeks but I havent heard anything of them setting up here.

There is a 3rd F100 in ypph VH-FWF I dont know how long its here for I heard just afew days.

Why do light aircraft backtrack for full length departure?
 

I know this is off topic but im new here & I cant seem to find where to post a new topic! I would like to point out there was a morning where RWY 06 was in ops only due to easterly wind & there was quite a traffic jam first thing in the morning! Now I understand A330,747,777,737, back tracking from juliet for a full length departure & F100,dash 8,bras using a juliet departure! Now my question is why on earth do all the lighties like BE76,C441,Navajo,Barons etc back track for a full length departure when the RWY is 2163m in TDA????? and rotate before the intersection!Bringing the airport to agrinding hault! do these guys have a A330 complex or something? when they are gonna land on a runway half the length.I see this all the time & it just adds to the congestion.

Old news, but relevant.

I was talking about it with an instructor the otherday about XR leaving Karratha, how they said they didnt get the big companys support, considering ALOT of their flights were full with paying passengers. But the flights were always late and something always seemed to go U/S on the f100's which gave them a bad rep.

Can we see them returning to KTA anytime soon?, or atleast they should offer a Karratha-Port Hedland flight for the Bali bound passengers as most passengers on that flight originate in Karratha.

There were also rumours a while back that Virgin Blue and Jetstar wanted to expand in WA. I still believe that Skywest will do something domestically maybe expand Darwin services, Bali services or something similar.

tomcat264,

Consider also wake turbulence seperation. From the full length your looking at a 2 minute seperation but from an intersection its 3 minutes. With those sort of times you might as well use it constructively and backtrack.

Back when I use to fly piston twins my "V1" so to speak was blue line on a runway as long as perth. Therefore it was quite possible to rotate at 95kts climb to 20-30ft and then after an engine failure before blue line land straight ahead. I would want all the runway I could use and as RTG said would prefer to do this than fly an assy circuit. A dash 8, Bras or Metro with the assistance of reverse would probably use less runway stopping prior to V1 than a light twin using the above method.
An example: At the moment Koolan Island are looking at running Dash's direct but from what I've seen of Koolan there's no way you'd consider putting a Baron, Nav, 310 into it.

I get the impression they would still wanna back track even if the intersection departure was 11,000TDA

Back tracking on RWY24 does not add 10 secs, it is adding approx 2 - 3 minutes.

Heavies should be backtracking whilst lighties depart from the intersection.

Longest recorded taxi time in the past 8 weeks was 48 minutes.

Apron and airspace congestion was the primary concern at the recent Perth Airport Operators meeting, still unsure as to what action items were raised.

xr

Going 1 Inop towards the hills in a fully loaded 441, BE76 PA31 is not a pretty thing! Especially on a hot day! Its not all that pretty when its ops normal! That extra 316m can make the difference between a big fireball and no fireball.
We arent out there to piss people off. We are all in the same boat, we all have a schedule to keep, we all have different aircraft types and performance, some have aircon, some dont! We all have to look after our own aircraft, and be respectful to others, keep the backtrack brisk! :ok:

Skywest XR,
a F50 is hardly a "heavy". props are for boats mate. My humbling experiences in light twins from yonks ago is that you are looking for trouble if you do not take full length. We are paid to cater for the unexpected, not the expected.

JT Pilot - If I were you, I wouldnt be flying towards the hills OEI

As for the unexpected. There are 2 types of unexpected events:

-the expected unexpected - performance wise, this is catered for in flight manuals as per CAO20.7.1/1B.

-the unexpected unexpected - if you allow for these events, well, you will send the company broke.

End of the day, do your full length departure, its up to you....bottom line is, this airport is #@%$&*. Its long overdue that WAC do something about the infrastructure here.
xr

If you were a miner, which would you prefer, a hot meal and great legroom on the F50, or a biscuit and juice/croissant/etc on the Dash/Bras and having to fold yourself up into your seat if you're taller than average? :}

Seriously though, I can remember one contract getting yanked a few years ago from a particular operator and going to another because they 'did it better'. Guess it depends on how much the mine would have to pay out to ditch the contract vs the benefit... HOWEVER... many might think it worth the hassle if the on-time performance/delay factor would be greatly reduced...

I reckon the figure for 10 departures in 30min is probably conservative, I'd say at least half that amount from each of the bigger operators every 30-60mins at that time... I always did admire the ATC guys n girls sitting there at 0610 watching that bloody big line of Brasilias, Metros, F50s etc... and if you've ever paxed on the pencil in summer, you'd appreciate that 20mins holding in a taxi queue aint that great!!! :E

Skywest could get into the FIFO stuff in a fairly big way if they play it right... eventually having 7 50's means they'd have at least one to use on charters and have the other for breakdown redundancy etc (as seems to be the case lately)

PS...

OzJet are interviewing for cabin crew and have Perth listed as a base on their website. So I'd say it looks likely they're setting up here. Believe I read somewher eon here that pilots have already interviewed for PER-based jobs.

Wow ONE surplus F50 they will really make a big dent in the FIFO work with that.:rolleyes:
What exactly did you admire? Firing them off in sequence is the easy part, sequencing a busy arrival pattern takes a bit more skill but then again flow, melbourne centre and perth approach set all that up for the tower guys, all that remains is ".... clear to land.";)

OZJET is confirmed for February. Two locals employed as FOs.

My spy tells me Ozjet offered 6 driver-airframe jobs in Perth, not 2. Training course January. All locals, and for good reason - they can afford to live there. Perth too expensive for out-of-towners now. Cabin crew to follow next month, same deal - have to be locals. Don't want people from O/S looking for semi- retirement gig. 2 airplanes based there from March. Believe it.

Well, I was being a bit sarcastic there, tone really does not come across well does it? I meant XR could get into FIFo if they really want to and commit the time to it, eventually if they got enough aircraft they could put a big dent in things if they started nicking more contracts off Njs, Skippers etc... (might not be too hard for some :E)

Ok so maybe the 'tower guys' don't actually do much, but I admired whoever was behind organising all that, and putting up with my occasionally causing a traffic jam behind 'my' acft when we had nowhere to park 'em ;) I certainly see the fact that things at PH are getting busier by the minute, and it's not easy on anyone who has to deal with that mad morning/arvo rush...!

GC, I heard Alliance were doing the same thing, trying to get locals as they're more likely to stay (and can afford to!!)

Pretty sure that the revered flow et al don't get to involved in sequencing ccts between arrivals and departures. Not to mention the P.I.L.S :eek:

If everyone knows about the morning conga lines, why do they all persist in departing at the same time? :ugh:

Ramp space? Performance measurements/guarantees? ****s & giggles? :8

Alliance interviewed for more PER based pilots/cabin crew a fortnight ago.

Training courses start in Jan - the are additional crew that will be required to crew the 3rd aircraft from March.

From what I heard, they have offered commands to lots of BNE/TSV FOs if they move to PER but no one wants to because financially its a step backwards.

Resource boom is crazy.....created all these fantastic jobs......but as a consequence, no one can afford to take them.