CPL to JAA Conversion
 

Hey everyone,

Sorry if this has been posted before (which I'm sure it has but i can't seem to find it), but I'm interested in converting my Aust. CPL to JAA as my girlfriend is a brit. Whats the approx. price of doing this?

I've had a look at the WA aviation college site but its a bit confusing. How much flying do I have to do and If I havn't done my ATPL's yet am I best just doing them for the JAA licence?

Any help would be much appreciated. THanks a lot!

G'day,

A friend of mine has just completed it this week (took about 10 months). Cost including everything ie. CPL conversion to JAR CPL, 14 ATPL exams (all done in the US) accommodation, flights back, IR conversion cost him GBP 18,000 or about A$45,000. There are jobs he tells me but he may be forced to buy a type rating (73) for Easy Jet or Ryan which will be another A$20,000! I am as a result staying put for the forseeable future!:(

Killer, if you want to go the easy route try £23,000 (yes pounds stirling) don't know what that is in Aus$ these days, but around $57,000 would be in the ball park. You can either hand it over or borrow it, either way its gone. Don't know about Ryanair.

Alistair ,you obviously are a bit more clued up on the "type rating Easy Jet" bit but I think we can agree it's a shed load of money!:ok:

Mate its not all doom n gloom. Yes its very expensive. All part of protecting there own I guess. Im over in the UK now and there are lots of jobs here still for experienced people. Yes you can get work low time also with operators like FlyBE, Air Southwest, Aurigney, Logan and a few others.

Easyjet are doing a TRSS now (check the website) and Ryanair are bonding now instead. The industry over here is full of daddies little rich kids who can afford to pay the large sums. Sadly this doesn't mean that the best people for the job are chosen. There is nothing worse than sitting next to a spoilt brat.

The money is good here but the cost of living kills it.

Your best bet is to ring international directries in Oz and get the UK CAA number for flight crew licencing and ask them for the relevant paper work and details. I did that 3 years ago and it was invaluable. You don't wait in a hold for hours on end anymore either. The service is actually quite good. Not bad for government work.

Hope this helps.

Thanks a lot for the info everyone! :mad: I can't beleive how expensive it is!!? WHy is it so much? I thought it was mostly theory. Does anyone know how much it is through WAAviation College off the top of their head?

Where did you do your conversion VIRGA?

Yeah we're just considering it as an option for the future as the airlines here bend you over. Thanks again!

Chode,

You're looking at a serious wedge of cash whatever you do.
You'll need an ancestry visa or a European passport for starters. (Note, there is mumblings about the ancestry visa being wound up possibly next year.)

I don't know the pricing of the WAAC.

To convert your Australian CPL to a JAA CPL with IR and ATPL exam credits (aka "frozen ATPL") you'll need to do a JAA medical (if you intend to get a UK JAA CPL then the initial class 1 medical needs to be done in Gatwick).

Then you'll need to do the 14 exams. You can do them in Perth (WAAC) or distance learning (have a look at Bristol Ground School) or do them full time in the UK. Budget about 2000 GBP plus other such living expenses.
Exams themselves are about 700GBP.
Medical I think is about 250GBP.
License. I can't remember. Budget about 150GBP and a day of your life.....

That's the theory done.

The flying. If you hold an ICAO IR then you need to do a minimum of 15 hours of which some can be done in a synthetic trainer. Budget about 3000GBP at least! Remember to add in some for the CAA examiner. That's another couple hundred pounds.

Now you have a nice shiny blue book CPL/IR with ATPL credits. You now have ~ 7 years to "unfreeze" it.

MCC's a big thing here. Budget another grand or so.

As a few have alluded to the pay for rating thing is alive and well in the UK. :( easyJet's TRSS is 23K. Ryanair are still charging for low houred guys but now have dropped their "TRSS" for bonds for experienced jet guys. Actually, easyJet's done the same for experienced jet guys.

Air Southwest don't charge for a rating but they don't pay the best. 18K for an FO. It goes up to 21.5K for an FO with an ATPL. BACon don't charge for a rating, they fly Dash 8s and regional jets.

There is hope but it's a risk. There is signs of a slow down on the long haul sector but the European short haul stuff is still booming.

Be aware of the typical cyclical nature of this industry. 7-10 years.

For factual info, check out the UK CAA's LASORS online.

Mate at WAAC i think its in the A$3500 Ball park for the 14 subjects self study. You can do the flight test for the CPL conversion here but not the IR. You still need to get your JAA class 1 before you sit any of the exams and that has to be done in the UK (or other JAA state). I'm doing my class 1 in Holland at the end of november, Then the study starts.. From what i have heard they have a very good pass rate...
Good luck with it all.:ok:
JUZ

$3300 for the WAAC JAA ATPL course.

Distance study

Aussie

Well, I can tell you it's worth it.

Just launched out of London City, punched through the typical London overcast to glorious sunshine. Pootled down the airways to the south of France. Hand flown circling approach* to land at Cannes. The Hawker's good like that. Pity the weather's **** here today. Cest la vie with a gallic shrug thrown in.

Return flight cancelled as the owner wants to go home tomorrow and now in a hotel err... surfing the net. :suspect:

Never in my wildest dreams would I be doing this in Australia.


* not quite the circling approach that you do in Oz. More of a visual thing because the terrain isn't conducive to an instrument approach... :D

Good to see your back in there Red.

You are the guru on all things JAR conversion.

Reds right, it's definately worth it and heed the advice. I listened to her a long time ago and everything said was spot on.

I did my conversion for the theory at Bristol ground school by distance learning whilst I was still flying in Oz and went to UK for the brush up courses and exams then came back 3 weeks later and did the 2nd module. I then went back and did the 2nd lot of exams (and 1 repeat ooops :} ) then started the flying training. It was 15hrs in a duchess for me. This was pretty much the same hourly rate as a citation in Oz. Took me 2 years to clean my slate and now Im away.

You will need to work very very hard and fast. It all took me just under a year.

If you dont have right to live and work you better marry that lady of yours asap.:eek: unless of course you already are :O

Cheers guys! You've been a great help. Havn't got the right to work there yet but considering getting the right to work there and thought it looked to have a lot more opportunities. Dutchess the price of a Citation? yeah I've noticed they have crazy training prices. £10,000 for an Instrument rating!! :mad:

Job
 

Hello Mate,

I read your post about jobs in UK and i found it very interesting. I'm currently flying B767 in south america and have around 6000TT, 4000 on the 76. The only problem would be passport and JAA. Do you think there is a possibility for my case in UK or in Europe??? :bored:

Tks

Cheers

Just so as to gain a JAA licence....

is there an option of converting an Australian ATPL to a JAA/CAA CPL without doing all 14 ATPL exams... and only doing the Medical and maybe the flight/sim check?

I mean, do they give credit to someone for already having an ATPL and issue them with a CPL (a downgrade, but a licence nonetheless) without having to do everything discussed above?

Saves money, and still provides the opportunity to work in the UK/Europe or fly a JAA registered aircraft.

Anyone in the know?

Dougie:
No EU passport (or right of work type visa) = no JAA fly.
There are a number of N-reg aircraft that are Europe based flown by FAA licensed crews so you could possibly achieve the same thing that way?

9Ws
Yes, there is a way of converting an ICAO ATPL to JAA without the 14 exams. I forget exactly what it is but once you have very many thousand hours on ATPL type aircraft then you only have to do the air law paper (don't quote me).

As was mentioned earlier - it's all spelt out on the UK CAA website in their licensing document LASORS in a very easy to understand fashion.

all
For those considering the Australian course, apart from the fact that my dealings with WAAC were, quite frankly, appaling (their customer service has scared me off for life), I'm almost 100% that you must get the initial class 1 license issued in Europe by the country you'll be getting your license from (say the CAA) in person.

So if you have to go there to do your medical, why not do a distance course with one of the many (I recommend bristol.gs too) and allow the bit extra for the cost of accomodation for the 6 weeks you need to complete the 14 exams (and cram courses). Meet the locals, find out better where to do your conversions etc etc.

Finally, for those bemoaning the amount of money it'll cost - yep, I understand - but if you're desperate for the airlines at all costs then spending the money will save you many years apprentiship in GA in Oz. It's up to you!

UTR.

So am I interpreting this correctly? : If I already hold an Aus CPL/IR, for the flying componant I do the min 15 hours IR stuff & test, and I get the CPL as well without a CPL flight test? :confused:

Just a word about WAAC.

Be careful about the "exam delivery fee". Exams are held at a local Uni and if they are not concurrent with a scheduled sitting you are up for AUD 500 per subject instead of the normal $50.

Last I heard is they are not providing any modular flight training for the forseable future.

I spoke to them this week about converting a ATPL via the modular course, and there was no mention that they weren't offering this method at the moment.

I hadn't heard before reading this thread that a UK medical is required prior to sitting the exams...can anyone confirm this?

altocu

I don't know that you have to have a class 1 medical when you sit the exam however you will need one at some point (obviously). The only catch is that you will need a CAA (or whichever authority) reference number - and getting your medical is the standard way of acheiving this (in the UK at least). This may make it difficult to achieve the whole medical/exams shooting match in one short trip so perhaps there is another method which would be better.

UTR.

PS I'm sure WAAC were advertising modular courses in the not too distant past - obviously not the market around for them? Or too many $$$ to be made on the integrated courses.

CAA Ref
 

You get a CAA Reference number:

When you book your first exam, when you get your Medical Certificate or if you apply for a FRTOL (Radio Tel Licence), whichever comes first.

You do not need one to sit the exams and the medical is not required beforehand.

If you hold a ICAO class 1 medical, you require an "extended ICAO renewal". Cost GBP 258.00