Cheapest 4 seater Single for Hire in Melbourne?
 

I cannot believe the price of aircraft hire in Melbourne. I am looking to hire a 4 seater single on a regular basis (about 30 hrs a year) but the prices that I have been seeing are up towards the $200 p/h mark.


Does anyone know of some cheap (and well maintained) 4 seat singles in the Melbourne area? EN or MMB

I guess my other option is to join a syndicate. Does anyone know any good syndicates in Melbourne? How much can I expect to pay?

4 seater hire
 

There is a school at Ballarat that has a nice Piper Archer for $145 per hour wet including GST.

I cannot believe that someone would expect me (or any other aircraft owner) to give their asset away for less than cost := And for the grand amount of 30 hours a year, by someone who was asking about where to do his PPL only last year, in June 2005!!!!!

What a sauce! This forum has constant moans from young pilots who can't get a proper paying job, yet we have someone expecting below cost hire of the very type of machine that is supposed to generate income to pay everyone in the food chain :ugh:

an-124
just remember you pay peanuts- you get a rust bucket.

Try Tooradin; their 172 Skyhawk II is only $147 wet inc GST. They have 2 of them. They aren't being used much at the moment.

Gota love how people do a back ground check on your posts before they irrationally flame you huh:rolleyes: Very mature....cant see how the fact he only did his PPL last year makes a difference? John if your business is doing so well that you can nock back every guy who wants to do a 'measley' 30 hours a year then good luck to you....:suspect:

I was wanting to get back into flying, but after weighing up the cost of a medical, BFR and then the actual cost of going for a fly for an hour it didnt take long to realise there are a billion other things out there that would give me a billion times better value for money. I love flying but I'll be dammed if Im gunna pay these prices to enjoy it.. Sheesh for the same price I could go on a holiday to Hawai...real tough choice!!!

Funny how people want other people to pay for their flying. My 4 place single cost me $125 an hour dry over 300 hours to break even a year.
The flying school was getting my aircraft for too cheap and I was losing $40 an hour every time it went flying. Now I put the price up and I am ripping them off.
Some of these people should go to the bank and get a loan for $250000 and then hire their aircraft out watch the bills flow in and then after a year we will see what they then think of hiring out their aircraft for cheap!

With respect, most large flying schools with sizeable fleets have significantly lower running costs than your one off costs you. Maintenance and hours etc. reduce costs.

Someone said somewhere; If it floats, flies or f**ks... rent it.
Seems unless you own a flying school, don't buy a plane to make you money. If its for pleasure, stick to ultralights, buckets of fun! :ok:

With that level of experience, the insurance cost would most likely increase from less than 3% hull to about 10%. With good reason, which would further make such a small hire requirement unattractive at anything but proper commercial rates, certainly sufficient to cover such a premium increase.

Re the quick check of his previous posts, what makes that "irrational"?

Incidentally, how much does it cost you to operate your aircraft ;)

podbreak you might find it interesting to ask any local flying school how many of the aeroplanes on the flying school line are actually owned by the flying school.

You will find that any aeroplane beyond C172 size is owned privately and leased back to the school in an attempt to offset some of the cost of ownership.

If it wasn't for people like myself and John you would NEVER get to fly anything more interesting than a 1978 C172/PA28 without a CPL and a job in the NT...unless you owned it!

Confused Identity?
 

I'm confused as to why "an-124" started this thread and asked the question, then 4 replies later "bearcuban12" thanks Evil Ultralights for his post, implying that he answered HIS initial question.

Me thinks "an-124" and "bearcuban12" are the same person!

Chimbu, talking of 4 place singles, I had in mind 172s and old warriors, as an-124 wanted the cheapest. I also mentioned the 'large' flying schools, who generally own their 172s and warriors (sure their 182s and lances might be private). The frustration for many (and i'm assuming that includes an-124) lies with these larger flying schools who have large asian state-owned-airline training contracts and can afford to rip off weekend warriors. These are the institutions who can afford to have cheaper prices, but because of their training monopolys charge a fortune. They don't need the extra business.

Yes you are right, you provide interesting planes for us to hire, but i'd put it to you that perhaps your purchase wasn't to make a small fortune, rather for your love of flying. I'm not saying you shouldn't have bought a plane, on the contrary I think its fantastic, but if I bought an aircraft (a 172 say), I wouldn't expect to make money off it.

I think this thread was intended on finding the cheapest deal out there, not to rip you off.:ok:

What on earth makes you think that the "weekend warrior" is being ripped off? Just as a background, I've currently got three 172's, and have averaged close to 1000hrs/year each with them for many years in my own business, so I do have a vague idea of the costs involved!

Increases over the past few years have been horrendous, the fuel price being only one. Airport owners need a return on their investment, and are steadily jacking up their returns: Archerfield have an annual CPI + 5% increase in landing fees, and their rates charge for my hangar went up 68% this year! Essendon landing fees are about $25 minimum, on top of Avcharges. Maintenance rates are up about 40% over the past 5 years, and even then the maintenance companies are only just covering their costs, let alone making a profit.

My 172's (N's and a P) go out at $A200 + GST + landing fees, on general charter. Anyone charging less is kidding themselves if they want to make a profit long term. The owner who thinks they are making money at $140/hr is not going to think so when an engine and prop come up for replacement, let alone when a $5k avionic bill comes through the post.

I do feel strongly about this, because I read with despair the plight of young pilots trying to get a foot in the door in our industry, and the tales that are told here of how some operators take advantage of them. It's a cutthroat industry, and if the only way to reduce the monthly bill is to cut pilot's income, some operators will do that.

For the likes of an-124 to expect aircraft owners to let their investment go out below cost, annoys me :sad:

Gotta stand up in support of JE on this one.

I think many people seriously underestimate the REAL cost of owning and operating an aircraft in 2006. Then of course if you are in aviation as a business you, quite reasonably, are looking to make a few $ out of it.

The reality is that the days of private flying for pleasure is DEAD. OK I know about those "sporty aircraft" toy things, but I won't even sit on one of those things, for me flying is about going places. I got over "the thrill of it" (flying that is) about 20 years ago.

I operate an IFR Bonanza on 99% business flying for up to about 200 hrs a year. If I was to private hire it (and I won't) and priced it out using normal business criteria - it would cost about $500/hr + charges.

Anyone who can afford to pay that - would be better off to get their own aircraft.

Cheers

R:cool:

John to tell you the truth I dont really care-I am a customer and if operators arent going to listen to the avergae punter then its their loss. As I said there is a million other things to spend your hard earned on that give much better value for money these days-just walk onto any airport and see the ghost towns and this is clear.

I know it is expensive to operate aircraft, still doesnt make it any easier for the punter to accept the cost. Maybe its about time the operators started getting in touch with the real world and looking for other avenues to reduce costs because because its not going to be long and there will be no more customers left unfortunately. My dealingas with aviation have shown it to be an amazingly unprofesional industry run by incompetants with a passion for flying but no idea about how to run businesses. But thats just my humble opinion...

I don't think aircraft hire rates are too expensive for fun or for business flying and it is still a source of amazement to me that private owners put aircraft worth $$$$ on the line for the likes of me to hire.

If you think its expensive, try estimating the cost of travelling to Birdsville or Broken Hill by road (without busting a gut) and compare it doing the same trip by air, there is not that much difference.

Furthermore, the larger RAA aircraft are approaching the performance of the C172 class and are considerably cheaper because their compliance costs are lower. They are also approaching the fuel consumption figures of a car, and they travel in straight lines taking much less time. (eg YMMB - Mansfield is about 45 minutes C172 vs. Three hours by Car).

Split Personalities
 

QNH1013.2
Me thinks "an-124" and "bearcuban12" are the same person!Yesterday 21:47


Mate, I have been watching this forum for a couple of years now, and me thinks he is not the only multi user with an identity crisis here:rolleyes:

squawk6969:E

What areas would that be chixdigpilots?

Out of Fuel, maintenance, insurance and hangarage which would you like me to cut, 'in the real world' to make it cheaper for 'the average punter'?

The basic reason less people can afford to fly for fun these days is because real wages (after taking into account inflation) have been going down since 1972. Nothing short of economic suicide will make it cheaper for the average hirer.

Having said that light aircraft are still good value for money in terms of getting somewhere quickly and at reasonable cost.

Well for starters you should stop using 50 year old technology-I am amazed that the rest of the world has moved forward yet avaiation is still stuck in the 60's!! You are all getting screwed by Piper/Cessna its a joke!!! The industry as a WHOLE (a word that doesnt seem to exist in aviation) needs to stand up and force prices down in the areas you are getting raped. Look at the difference in quality between a $200,000 car and aircraft-its embarrasing:O

Dont complain about petrol prices-the rest of industry has had to deal with them also. It seems the main reasons are the aircraft and associated spares they require are cost prohibative-then stop using them!! Start looking to alternatives, experimental/ultralights eg. Im not a business professional so cant offer any advice but it doesnt take blind freddy to realise that aviation has a terminal disease:uhoh: Time to chop of the rotten leg and look for a replacement!!

Shows just has niave some of you are that you think (convice yourselves?) that G.A is good value!! How in the hell can I justify to myslef let alone my partner that I am going to spend a couple of grand on a few weekend flights when we could be going to Hawai for the same price?? Its just not guna happen guys and its time you took your head out of the sand playing victim and take control of you industry and your future, well whats left of it.....

Oh I see - silly me! You think that your average GA hirer should throw away their 20yo, fully written-down hunk of junk and buy you a brand new SR20 for $500k and NOT charge you anything for the cost of capital tied up in that plane? Jeez I amaze myself with my stupitidy sometimes.

I do at least agree with you that GA has a terminal disease BUT 'blind freddy' will point out that this is because GA doesn't charge the true cost of the operation.

As for pretending that GA is good value? Who/where/when ever tried to pronounce that HIRING aircraft to fly GA was good value? Remember the old adage "There's only one way to make a small fortune in aviation...."

UTR.