Katoomba YKAT
 

Hi there, anyone been into Katoomba?

I am planning to visit home (Sydney - I live in London) later this year and plan to take a mate of mine, who lives in the Blue Mountains, and his kids on a local flight from Camden in a P28B Dakota to see the sites and their house from the air, and was thinking stopping in at (unlicensed) Katoomba for a break and change of seats etc.

I understand the longer of the two runways (RWY 24/06) I am told is 950m - haven't done the math yet, and the Dak is a bit heavy compared to a Warrior so it will depend on the density altitude (elev. 3,280') on the day, but I think that'll probably be OK for climbing out. But if they are on the cross-wind runway (28/10) which I understand is substantially shorter, then that probably won't be an option. The remarks in ERSA say that there are power lines crossing the RWY 28 threshold as well.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone familiar with the airfield -- anyone been in there in a Dakota? Anything else to know?

Cheers!

Andy :ok:

Haven't actually been there myself... however, have heard that one would want a STOL aircraft for THAT strip!

Hmmmm, well the mighty Dakota is many things, but STOL it is not!

Andy :\

Thanks -- ERSA doesn't give the RWY lengths(!)

Good idea to check with Curtis, thanks!

Andy :ok:

G'day Andy
 

From the NSW Country airstrips guide (2002)

Operator/Owner Blue Mountains Aero Club (02) 4788 1174

Elevation 3280' AMSL
Strips: 06-24 980M Unsealed Gravel
: 10-28 640M Under repair

Windsock and Markers YES
Lighting UNDER REPAIR

Remarks:

At press time runway 10-28 was under repair. Caution: turbulence and windshear. Right circuits runway 06. Beware power lines at eastern end. CTAF 126.7. KAT NDB 233. Landing fees apply, at press time fixed wing private $10.00. Latest information: Barry Sonter, on site (02) 4788 1174 or Godfrey Lucas (02) 4757 3458, (0425) 219 518 (mob). Permission required prior to use.

Hope this helps

DIVOSH

Had a look around there a couple of years ago and late last year (on the ground). Nobody uses it, it’s full of grass and rocks. I’d use it only in dire emergency.

Cheers fellas -- sounds like at a minimum some local knowledge is needed, so I've dropped a line to Curtis as suggested (I will be renting the Dak from them whilst at home...)

Thanks!

Andy :ok:

It's awful........

:cool: I have to admit, it is pretty bad.

Katoomba might be, but VH-LJK isn't, that's a really sweet aeroplane:ok:

We went up there about 3/4 months ago and tried to get a partialaviator in, it was a little dodgy but no more than 90% of the other unsealed strips i've been to in nsw (we weren't too concerned about landing so went off somewhere else). From 200' it essentially looks like a clearing in the trees, lots of power lines around and like dr oakenfold said lots of rocks but in saying that old mate who looks after the strip may have cleaned it up a bit since then. 2 weeks before I went up there, a mate landed and got out in the partenavia no worries, and was even queried on the ctaf freq by the owner whether he was going in for a cuppa!:ok:

Curtis' chief pilot has confirmed that it's a bad idea! Apparently a number of aircraft have had difficulties there so they have a policy that one may not fly in there without an instructor on board - which is handy as that avoids me making a decision myself ;)

So I will use Bathurst say for my pit-stop / change the kids between seats etc. on our scenic flight instead.

Thanks all for your input!

Andy :ok:

strip is very rough as of last month, large rocks everywhere and the grass is creaping up as well, i would only fly into there in something like a Storch or Savannah, tundra tyres would almost be a smart choice.

YKAT is not such a bad strip!!! If you limit your opps to 0-10kts of wind then you take out the windshear problems and the rest is easy!

For the guys above who have put their two bobs worth in they might actualy want to go and land on the strip and see what its like or call Rob at Kat airstrip who teaches there (No. in ERSA). Yes a C310 does regular trips there from BK with a limited load with no problems and the main runway 24/06 is a lot better then some other ALA's.

If you know what your doing then no problems but do get checked out by someone who frequents the place, if you think you need a STOL with large tundra tyres and a turbine engine then stay away.

Just my two cents worth.

What is wrong with people these days?
 

When was the last time you guys landed off the asphalt?

I know that when I learnt to fly "in the country" I never once landed on the dirt or grass... except once when I was told to land on the stopway on 35 at Cessnock "so you have some rough dirt runway experience" :rolleyes:

I am surprised that Curtis Avn reckon KAT is rough. I was at YKAT a bit over 12 months ago in a C172 and yeah, it's a dirt strip... but gees... :ugh:

Get out there and live a little :ok:

Right out of my mouth Bendo, at least someone here has landed on something less than 1000m of hard stuff in the last 10 years!!

Where are all these "Large rocks". Oh well at least it will stay nice and quiet if everyone is scared of the place.

And remember that Jim Drinnan is flying folks into and from Yerranderie almost every day of the year .... I'm sure Curtis has ample corporate knowledge to make a call on the strip at Katoomba.

I haven't flown into YKAT for a year now but it wasn't a problem. A little bumpy comming in (fm light windshear), keep an eye on the power lines and the richmond control area and you shouldn't have problem. I don't see how a STOL is a requirement as I pulled up in a partnavia no worries. The only down side was that I was running late so I couldn't get that cuppa that was offered when I phoned to heck the conditions of the strip.

From memory there is a bit of a slope on the strip as well (humped in the middle). Helps with the braking!

Makes me want to go back and have another go!

Bort

Over the last 18 months I have only been flying into remote and rough bush strips. katoomba is by far the worst I have flown into. Be aware and be very careful. As previously stated, powerlines EVERYWHERE, rough strips, (rocks and bushes on strip), lots of wind sheer and turbulance etc etc. From what I remember it also hangs kind of, off a cliff...........:uhoh:

If you do fly in here, be very very careful.....

I did a touch n go at Katoomba about a year ago in a C-210. This dirt runway is the worst I have ever landed on. Runway is in very poor condition and I wouldn't consider landing there again and yes as there are cliffs off the end you want to get it right the first time. Definitely call the owners before you go there and do a good fly-by inspection before you put your wheels on the ground. But I really advise you steer clear of it. :)

YKAT
 

I wouldnt land there. If Curtis say no definitely not.

ATSB report on a C206 accident might be of interest.
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...200402685.aspx

was in there a few years ago in a tailwheel , very poor strip condition on 24, lucky with the spats, even then 10/28 had large X's on it. and the wind for the first 300 can be bubbly and unpredictable, avoid early mornings as there can be significant differences in air temp from tops to valleys.

A 182 with 1/2 tanks maybe, a dak with 4 up might have problems with the winds.

Besides , its at least 2/3 km walk to the town.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...t/Dsc01589.jpg

yeah i know, not much detail. but recent.

Cheers all -- appreciate all the info!

Andy :ok:

I'm amazed at the fear many people have of YKAT.

I first solo'd there last year !! Rod Hay, one of the airfield operators, runs an RAA school there, with Jabirus and Texans.

Sure both strips are a little bumpy, but you sure learn how to use the rudder. The strips are are servicable and are gravel/dirt.

Yes there are power lines on all sides. 06/24 has power lines level with the runway, so no issue there (unless you're a little low on approach), and 10/28 the power lines are high and just before the threshold of 28, so you'll need to come in high.

And yes, it's on the top of a mountain! So there are cliff drops on the ends of all 4 strips. Just make sure you use a little brake and land just after the threshold (not half way down)! Unless of course you're landing 06, and the uphill run will slow you down.

Many aircraft use the field, Cessna 180's (hangered there), 152's, 172, 310's, Piper Arrows, etc. You name it, i've seen it at YKAT.

The advice I was given when i first started flight training, was YKAT would greatly improve my piloting skills, and they were right - YKAT makes sure you aren't lazy - you gotta use all your skills, rudder and brain - it's no place for the lazy pilot - i've taken off and landed there now hundreds of times in Jab's, Texans, C152's, C172's and Arrows.

So what's the big deal?

It's often used as a firebase for Bushfire ops, the last time I was there was a few years ago, but it seemed nothing untoward for FW ops then. A bit dusty, but no worse than a lot of strips I've been into (plank wing, not rotary!). This is the only photo I have that shows any of the strip itself, behind my BK: what "rocks" are being referred to by previous posters?



http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/...ak%20383-1.jpg

Here are some more photo's of YKAT, taken May 2005. I was there last weekend, and conditions have not changed - in fact they now have an additional heli-pad!

This photo shows me landing 24.

http://www.sponge.net/YKAT-Landing-24.jpg

The next shot shows me taking off 24. Note the dip in the runway just after the cross, and also note the Cessna 310 to the right of the Jabiru.

http://www.sponge.net/YKAY-24-Takeoff.jpg

Finally, here is a photo of the cross. I'm facing 10. Note the balls on the power lines over 28.

http://www.sponge.net/YKAT-Cross---Facing-10.jpg

From these photos you can clearly see that the airfield is quite suitable for most aircraft, and not the horror some people are calling it.

Yo..

Haha, I did my first ever commercial charter picking pax up out of KAT in a 206 !

I guess that by now you've done the flight (or gone elsewhere).

If the pix above are current then the surface would be fine for a light single. However, anyone operating there would need to consider:

1. You won't have a consistent horizon so you will need to watch airspeed and attitude in the circuit to make it a stable approach (constant aimpoint / airspeed / power).

2. The place is on the side of and near the top of a hill. All the different slopes will give you some "nice" visual illusions, so determine the circuit height and mid base / mid final check heights on the altimeter, not on any impression that you are too high/low. Any rain around will exacerbate the illusions.

3. The slopes create some good windshears. I would use a max 10 kt wind as a limitation, due to the downslope downdraft components.

4. Density altitude in summer can get to 7000' ! P-charts !

5. If you need to manouver to avoid cloud on your first trip to KAT, then leave it. Use a cruise level to get there of KAT elevation + 1000'. Don't get into any surrounding valleys.

6. Any doubts, go home and see Curtis about a hill flying course !

Is Lithgow strip still in use ?

From what I've seen on maps, would I be mistaken in thinking there's 2 Katoomba strips?

Because from what I've seen it looks like there's one strip south of the railway line close to the actual township, and there's another one north of the railway line near Medlow Bath?

Or maybe I'm just seeing things...

Either way, sounds like an interesting little place.

The one south of the railway line close to the actual township is the Katoomba NDB, not an airstrip - clearly marked as such on the Sydney VTC. :rolleyes:

Well I AM sorry.

I'm only a student pilot after all, you expect me to read maps properly? :p

No - but let us know when you're planning your next nav to Eildon Weir or Yarowee so we can come and watch..... <g>

UTR.

Don't worry about the niggles Bankstownboy - they have no one else to hassle, so they picked you.

Anyway, answering your question, yes, bentleg is right. The southern one, closer to Katoomba, actually on Narrow Neck Road, is the NDB.

The airfield, although classified as Katoomba airfield, is in Medlow Bath, and accessed via Grand Canyon Road.

In answer to The Wawa Zone, about the Lithgow strip... The last advice i got was ONLY use it as an emergency landing site. This was from the operator at YKAT. I've been meaning to take a drive there and check it out. Anyone else have a status?

Google Maps has a good image of the strip.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...427&iwloc=addr

Updated info in Lithgow
 

The Wawa Zone wanted to know about the airstrip at Lithgow.

I went out there yesterday, and mate, it's rough.

From end to end it's about 700 metres, but very messed up. Major pot holes (read craters, some filled with water and debris), lots of rubbish dumped at various points on the strip, huge gouges running across the strip in various locations - overall, serious damage.

Do not use this strip unless you have no other alternative - as you will seriously damage your aircraft.

Sorry, i don't have any photos - forgot the camera !

Lithgow
 

Yo..

Zed,
Last time I saw Lithgow strip there were two car engine blocks in the middle of it, holes everywhere, plus a dozen roos eyeing me suspiciously from one side. Sounds like no one is using it anymore. About 1998 someone tried doing a go around in a Bonanza and really wiped themselves out.

With a big dropoff at both ends and a dog leg bend in the middle it was a good training strip, but not as good as Yerranderie !

Dr Oakenfold - no i wasn't talking about the one at Little Hartley. That strip is clearly visible from the Great Western Highway - you can see the windsock at the highway end of the field, and yes, I knew about Dalgleish. There's also a grass strip about 1.5km's ENE, owned by Laurie Connell (O'Connell??), which i've landed on in a Jab - just watch out for the roo's.

The Lithgow strip is on Chifley road, Llithgow, not far from the Zig Zag railway.

The Wawa Zone - it's funny you talk about the roo's at Lithgow - same thing happened to me on Sunday - lot's of thumping and noise in the bush - i'm sure i was being watched ! And the drop off at both ends is no different at Katoomba. At least lithgow doesn't have power lines at every end ! You've just got to watch for the piles of dumped asbestos across the field !

Yo..

Yeah Zed, I should have mentioned that the last time I saw Lithgow I was on a motorbike, and I was careful riding THAT down the strip.

There would be a good charter market out of these strips for a pilot with a LOT of bush/hill experience and a couple of dozen well heeled clients who want to fly to/from Sydney Harbour on a regular basis in a bush anphib, but who don't mind being cancelled at short notice due crap weather.
Somehow I don't think any pilot is going to risk a anphib Beaver in this environment though. (unless they are Canadians who would probably just yawn and laugh at the Aussies !).

YKAT on Facebook
 

G,day,

Been a while since this topic was active but YKAT (Katoomba) is still operating. A Facebook page was created recently so you can check it out at www.katoombaairfield.com

There are a few aerial photos of the place and a few from the ground. You can also find links to ERSA and three local auto weather stations. Contact numbers for the airfield operator and local taxis are on it.

Katoomba has a fearsome reputation among some pilots. I began learning to fly there in a Jab LSA through 2008/2009. It was being thrown it at the deep end, but I really value the gruelling 20hrs of ab-initio I had there before completing my RAA Pilot Certificate training at YORG.

YKAT is not for the inexperienced pilot. It is a mountain strip! Although it gets serviced the surface can get rough and very uneven at times. Turbulence can be unpleasant if the wind is above 12kts. Expect some mechanical buffeting on late final and along the strip even in light wind. Density altitude must be checked against aircraft performance. You must be very confident in the airworthiness of your machine because you will be flying over tiger country to get to and from YKAT!

I strongly suggest doing a precautionary search or two before landing and make sure you are using the correct runway. The cross strip RWY 10/28 is short and usually unserviceable these days. RWY28 has high voltage power lines with red balls across the approach.

Having said all this, it is a spectacular place and there are great local amenities. You can get accommodation in Medlow Bath (MB) at "The Chalet" and in other nearby towns. Local taxis are happy to transport you. There is also a train station at MB with regular service to Mt Victoria, Lithgow, Katoomba and Sydney. You can get food and coffee from Browns Cafe next to MB railway station. The station is 5km (3.5 unsealed) from the airfield so unless you have a mountain bike it's a long walk! For the hardy there are some bush walks and camping near the airfield.

IMPORTANT: UNLESS IT IS AN EMERGENCY DO NOT ATTEMPT TO LAND AT YKAT UNLESS YOU CONTACT THE AIRFIELD OPERATOR PRIOR. HE WILL PROVIDE ESSENTIAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE CONDITION OF THE STRIP AND THE CURRENT LOCAL CONDITIONS. THERE IS NO AVGAS PUMP ONSITE BUT COULD BE ARRANGED BY ARRANGEMENT WITH THE AD OPERATOR. NEAREST FUEL IS YBTH (BATHURST) or YSBK (Bankstown) or YSCN (Camden)

hi.

anyone been to YKAT recently?

saw some photos on the FB page of YKAT & the segments shown actually look not-too-bad.

i've a beech bonanza - any comments about a non-STOL plane going in? gotta admit i havent had much bush flying experience but have landed along shorter strips (like YRBB) before. more concerned this time round with the sloping mountain strips & windshear.

any comments would be appreciated!

thanks. :)

Anyone been to YKAT recently?
 

Hi,

The airfield operator, Mr R. Hay passed away earlier this year. His executor has not yet appointed a director to the airfield company, therefore it may be difficult if not impossible to contact anyone to obtain permission to use the field. The contact numbers listed in ERSA may also not be current.

The field is a registered UNCR ALA and aircraft are continuing to use the field, however this may be against the wishes of the late Mr Hay's executor due to public liability insurance issues. The administrator of the YKAT FB page will pass on any enquiries made via that page to the executor, however they may not be answered. Technically speaking ERSA doesn't specify PPR for using the field, so please yourself now you've been advised of the state of play!

Suggest you try a few prec searches on the field in good weather in the meantime. A surface inspection is important, because the condition varies and there's presently no way of obtaining reliable advice. STOL performance isn't really an issue at YKAT.