I agree . I am fortunate to be able to take a B.COM Aviation management here in south africa. It's a normal bachelor of business but it has extra work that incorporates air law ,airport management, airline management etc. At the same time it requires you to have at least a com license. Unfortunately its not available as a correspondance course so you'll have to come here and do it. The course is accredited internationally and is hosted by the university of pretoria (the best in our country). The days of getting an engineering degree are gone. Today airlines want someone who understands why management gives them so much trouble and not someone who will be able to do a D-check on your stopover in the canaries.The degree obviously gives you the opportunity to get a desk job in the airline should you lose your medical.

also once you have a degree no matter what subject it is in , there is the opportunity to add papers and qualifications to it ...

I can't understand why some people think that AVIATION Degrees are nessecary to get into aviation management, if the flying doesnt work out. This is absolute fallacy...

Look at what you are likely to do in the airline management, and then tell me that a B.AV is more relevent than a degree in economics, law or business. ITS NOT.

Second, the 50yo guys who will give you the job in management will most likely have B.Comm's, econ, eng etc etc. They will look at the aviation degree and wonder what it is. It is not an established, respected degree. So if you want to do a degree, do one which is universally respected in ALL businesses.

Just to digress, I firmly believe that the Fortress course is an excellent investment in your aviation interveiw career. I can understand why some people have accused Terry Bristow (the guy who runs the course) as being full of crap. I dont agree, but the 90% that isnt 'crap' is invaluable.

I did the course twice, and havent failed an aviation interview since. It is well worth the money.

cheers

Bateman
What is this Fortress course or how do I get info.

Gotta agree Bateman re Fortress. A lot don't like the bloke for various reasons but i found it very valuable.

My own view, as someone that has done a few papers, is that what the degree does, is lift your application higher up the pile.:)

Gee I get sick of people hanging it on degrees. I did one and I've had jobs that it had no relevance to at all. Then again it helped me greatly in others. Sure it doesen't help you much with your stick and rudder. But really stick and rudder aint that hard once you have a few hours under your belt!! ( I think we tend to overate the difficulty of our job sometimes!!)

No regrets

Avguy

I've had five "good" (well paying, enjoyable) jobs in my time.

Four I got because I was enthusiastic & had a degree. (Which degree? Not really relevant.)

The other one was a flying job...

But I've advanced more quickly because of being able to do research, talk business-speak, etc.

Some countries make people do a basic science or arts as a first degree (or at least one year of the above) and then allow them to specialise. Good idea I think - makes people get some maturity and experience before committing them to a career path. It worked for me.

O8

Jealousy
 

The trend I see both here in this thread and in society in general is that people that dont have will invariably mock
those who have. Those who don't have a degree will run down there more educated counterparts to make themselves
feel better. I say if you get a chance to get a degree why the hell not. I am just about to graduate from my Bachelor of
Aviation and even though there has been minimal practicality in the syllabus, the course has been well worth the
effort. I know if I was an employer I would hire a uni grad solely for the discipline it takes to complete an
undergraduate degree in any field (maybe not arts, sorry couldn't help myself).

Ang ;)

My turn to put in 2 cents
 

I don't believe that a degree will make you a better pilot but it will show that you are capable (Iknow i can't spell) of studying and may help you to advance into an airline or whatever.
I feel that the poeple who rubish degrees are those who are either too lazy or stupid to do one and discorage others from doing one because someone with the degree may get a better job then they will.
I personally are for the degrees. althought they could be better designed course.
That all.

ANG737, do you want someone to stroke your ego???????????

I know many CFI, check and training Cpts ect that would tell you where to go if you said exactly what you just posted to them. Some of NZ and OZ top pilots got to where they are today with out degrees.

I do agree the day will come when you may need one, however its not the be all and end all. Does anybody here remember that an apprenticeship (sparky, plumber ect) is actually a hell of a lot harder to get than your off the shelf degree.

Food for thought for all of you doing degrees.........you are definately employable if you have a trade under your belt as well as your licences.

splat

Agree with splatthebugs, I've never done an apprenticeship but I imagine that if it's anything like getting a lame's ticket it's a lot harder and more practical and useful than a Aviation degree. Plus I don't see what level of work commitment a degree shows that an apprenticeship doesn't.
Mind you word of advice to an aspiring pilot/lame: if you wanna fly don't let it be known that you have a lames, guess who'll be the last to go flying every time.

then you have done the wrong degree. go to a real uni

So Splat, your apprenticeship was a hell of alot harder than your degree. I'm assuming your talking from experience.

If as you say the day will come when you need a degree how can you then write that it's not the be all and end all? If someone has all the requirements for an airline that requires you to have a degree but you don't have one I'm pretty sure a degree would pretty soon become your "be all and end all".....especially if it's a requirement for ALL the airlines.

I'm sure that there are plenty of "top" oz and nz pilots without degrees and have gone onto great things, but remember aviation degrees are a relatively new thing, and probably were not a training option for thoughs guys anyway.

splatgothebugs

Off the shelf degrees done exist. Done detract from those that have put in the hard work to get one. Sure any qualification is great you can never be overeducated. I am not fishing for an ego stroking and to read that from my thread is f**ked. All I am suggesting is that if you get a chance I highly recommend it.

Sure some of the top OZ pilots didnt have a degree to get where they are. Probably because aviation degrees were not around then, have you considered that...??

Sure a degrees is not the be all and end all... I never suggested for a minute it was, but I put this to you. What would happen if you had no qualifications (degree or trade, etc) and lost you all important medical. Back to stocking shelf at coles wishing you had a qual I would suggest...

splat

Why the hell would being a sparky/plumber help me be a better pilot? Do you reckon a bloke employing sparkies sifts through resumes and see's a bloke with a CPL and instantly gives him a job???

I agree that a trade gives you life experience, but there's plenty of other ways to do it other than completing an apprenticeship.

And Ang737, I am also an aviation degree graduate, but quite clearly spelling/grammar obviously wasn't a requirement to get into your degree. Nice effort... :hmm:

TL

Confusion
 

I think there are two issues here.

1. Is making the effort to do a uni degree worth it?

2. If you decide yes to 1. above, then why do an "aviation degree" when you could do a different, more widely recognised course. (B.Sc etc)

My thoughts are:

1. Entirely up to the individual. It does not make a better stick and rudder pilot. Some people have better communication skills and maturity after 3 years of uni. Some, like me, wanted to continue my education in areas of interest that have absolutely nothing to do with aviation. Some employers like this, some don't. It may help you though if you lose your medical to gain non aviation employment etc.

2. My limited understanding (correct me if I am wrong) is that the bulk of many of the basic aviation degrees is completing the theory for PPL to IFR to ATPL. If you do your training part time, then you'll have done these subjects anyway! A separate degree in say Science, Arts, Economics from say Melb, Monash, UNE, QUT, etc will give you well recognised edutcation both within and outside aviation. If you want to study further in the aviation field, then consider a Masters in Aviation for which you would have the prereq's if you have Bachelors degree from a recognised tertiary instution and industry experience.

CS

There is one organisation that has clearly signalled that an aviation degree is best for their employees, and that is the Australian Defence Forces.

ADFA introduced a Bachelor of Technology (Aviation) a couple of years ago to provide a consistent and thorough aviation education before sending off their personnel to pilot training. This restructure followed many years of accepting potential pilots with a variety of degrees.

CS, I'll take on question 2. The short answer is that no other degree was going to give me that much Credit Transfer for my industry experience.

I'm majoring in aviation education which has been very useful both in my employment with QF and in my hobby with Staff Training in the Air Force Cadets. Finally though, it gives me an 'in' into any Masters that I want. If I combine it with a Dip Business and head towards a Masters of something, there are then LOTS of options available if I lose my medical, QF goes belly up, etc, etc.

Transition Layer apologises for the lack of proof reading...

I am with Compressor on this one. Sure any degree doesn't necessarily make you a better pilot and if you have the option of studying a field that interests you then go for it.

I want to hear the thoughts of employers out there and in particular their horror stories or otherwise in employing uni grads...

Ang ;)