AOPA "The Election" (merged)
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QED;
On Bill's payroll, obviously don't have AOPA's interests at heart !
If ever anyone needed proof of an election fought entirely on a dislike for a personality, this must be it.
I have been preached to by "team AOPA" supporters that what AOPA needs are team players not individuals. great idea, but what all forgot to say, you must be on their team or they will not play with you.
Has it ever entered anyones mind that perhaps "team AOPA" won't win all 9, (or even 11 if it comes to that EGM), seats on the board. What do we do with those who don't meet with "team AOPA's) ideals?
Send them to coventry.
Make them irrelevant.
Pretend they are not there ???
If "team AOPA" get 75% of the vote and the 25% are hounded out, would it not be reasonable for the 25% of the 4300 members who voted for them, (1075 members), feel equally hounded out.
By your lot persisting with your efforts to win a power grab at Bill Hamilton's expense, you are possibly alienating these 1000+ members and you stand to loose not win a membership increase.
I believe that there are many more of the mainstream members who hold Bill in high esteem. Time will tell.
Suppose Bill and his "cronies" get 50% and your lot 50%, tell me how this "team" is supposed to get on.
Tell me also, will "team AOPA" still call an EGM if they win the 9 seats or just call one if you don't like the results?
To get back to team AOPA's original idea that doors would open for Marjorie, but be slammed to Bill, if you don't get your way, will you resort to vile and slanderous dialogue with CASA like you have with axiom (especially that by evil little emuar$e)?
I believe most have already voted by now and your lot have been shown up for what you are.
A mob of power grabbers who would destroy any individual who you thought would be a threat to your asperations even if they had AOPA's future and welfare in mind.
But then again, it's pointless preaching to the already committed.
Axiom has served his purpose and your replies will fall on deaf ears.
Just for the information of those who thought they had axiom's identity tagged, like woomera he is a multi headed identity.
On Bill's payroll, obviously don't have AOPA's interests at heart !
If ever anyone needed proof of an election fought entirely on a dislike for a personality, this must be it.
I have been preached to by "team AOPA" supporters that what AOPA needs are team players not individuals. great idea, but what all forgot to say, you must be on their team or they will not play with you.
Has it ever entered anyones mind that perhaps "team AOPA" won't win all 9, (or even 11 if it comes to that EGM), seats on the board. What do we do with those who don't meet with "team AOPA's) ideals?
Send them to coventry.
Make them irrelevant.
Pretend they are not there ???
If "team AOPA" get 75% of the vote and the 25% are hounded out, would it not be reasonable for the 25% of the 4300 members who voted for them, (1075 members), feel equally hounded out.
By your lot persisting with your efforts to win a power grab at Bill Hamilton's expense, you are possibly alienating these 1000+ members and you stand to loose not win a membership increase.
I believe that there are many more of the mainstream members who hold Bill in high esteem. Time will tell.
Suppose Bill and his "cronies" get 50% and your lot 50%, tell me how this "team" is supposed to get on.
Tell me also, will "team AOPA" still call an EGM if they win the 9 seats or just call one if you don't like the results?
To get back to team AOPA's original idea that doors would open for Marjorie, but be slammed to Bill, if you don't get your way, will you resort to vile and slanderous dialogue with CASA like you have with axiom (especially that by evil little emuar$e)?
I believe most have already voted by now and your lot have been shown up for what you are.
A mob of power grabbers who would destroy any individual who you thought would be a threat to your asperations even if they had AOPA's future and welfare in mind.
But then again, it's pointless preaching to the already committed.
Axiom has served his purpose and your replies will fall on deaf ears.
Just for the information of those who thought they had axiom's identity tagged, like woomera he is a multi headed identity.
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I use to be one of the AOPA members who thought BH was a bad guy only because of what a couple of members had whispered in my ear. It was quite convincing too until I had a chat to BH for myself and realised he was not paddling his own canoe but had pilots best interests at heart and was genuine about it.
Give him (BH) a call on the telephone and you may find he is not the tyrant that the accusers have made him out to be. He is quite a likeable chap.
If they try and shaft BH and get away with it, maybe we members will be next too?
Give him (BH) a call on the telephone and you may find he is not the tyrant that the accusers have made him out to be. He is quite a likeable chap.
If they try and shaft BH and get away with it, maybe we members will be next too?
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Axiom
As you said to me a long time ago in an earlier post, “Don’t let the mob get to you”.
To all
I believe the reason that the majority of candidates have not posted on this forum is that the issues are not being discuss. I have, for a long time, tired to move the spirit of the discussions from comments on various people to comments on the ideas, knowledge and experience that they can bring to AOPA. (brainh has been doing much the same thing, I feel too better effect than myself. At this time, some of the candidates have responded and told us what we asked for).
Snarek
Thankyou for providing that information. My decision with regards to your vote has been made. (Don’t try to read too much into this, I still not making my vote public, and some people know whom monkey is)
That leaves Marjorie and Murphie.
Gaunty
How am I ment to read this????
As you said to me a long time ago in an earlier post, “Don’t let the mob get to you”.
To all
I believe the reason that the majority of candidates have not posted on this forum is that the issues are not being discuss. I have, for a long time, tired to move the spirit of the discussions from comments on various people to comments on the ideas, knowledge and experience that they can bring to AOPA. (brainh has been doing much the same thing, I feel too better effect than myself. At this time, some of the candidates have responded and told us what we asked for).
Snarek
Thankyou for providing that information. My decision with regards to your vote has been made. (Don’t try to read too much into this, I still not making my vote public, and some people know whom monkey is)
That leaves Marjorie and Murphie.
Gaunty
Woomera a "distant relative"?
To quote the evil PM in that wounderful TV series "House pf Cards"
"YOu may well say that, but I coundn't possibly comment"
To quote the evil PM in that wounderful TV series "House pf Cards"
"YOu may well say that, but I coundn't possibly comment"
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monkeyfly
To learn the answer to that question you will have to get the following out of the Video store.
House of Cards
To Play the King and
The Final Cut. a delicious ending.
I promise you will enjoy them and be riveted from beginning to end. The usual BBC best, they make these shows like no others.
Ian Richardson playing the mendacious, malevolent and extremely cunning Francis Urquhart on his Machiavellian rise to Prime Minister and ultimately becoming the inevitable victim of his overweaning ambition.
A fascinating study of Westminster parliamentary democracy on which our own Government is based and a lesson to those who would play in this manner.
The author based his story on Shakespeares' Richard III, prescient chappie was Bill.
I hasten to add that I do not model myself on Urquhart at all, the experience of the series was a bit like the old "goodies and baddies" westerns we used to attend on the Saturday arvo Matinees, with the booing and the final cheering when the white hats or the Seventh Cavalry arrived and won, which in this case they did.
OK axiom there's your chance to deconstruct my personality and character.
axiom
Nice try, but too clever by half and entirely patronising to us all.
Firstly that has been soooo obvious of late to any with half a brain here.
Perhaps the real axiom made a bit of a dill of himself a few posts ago and quite obviously had to be reined in by the other axioms who are controlling the real one, lest they also be found wanting.
Geez Machiavello where are you.
One would have to ask what the agenda is if the other axia or is it axii ? must resort to using the real axiom to attempt to derail this thread.
I see the clumsy hand of one from the West who has been twice banned from this Forum and another who has at least two well known PPRuNe persona that he is quite capable of using.
So it is difficult to take seriously, anything that comes out of there except the real Murphies, Motion.
Haven't seen Murphie, rise to the challenge of stating his idea other than the "State" thing as being the answer to EVERYTHING and that everybody else is ganging up on him unless they agree.
C'mon axiom if Murphies told you, why not tell us.
Better, get him on here and talk to us then.
Hamilton had been conspicuous by his personal absence form here, although I have no doubt he has posted in here in his PPRuNe mode.
So when axiom speaks just who is he, what does he stand for and for which one are you voting.???
You have a choice of three.
axiom Ver1.0
axiom Ver2.0
axiom Ver3.0
Never mind axiom, the real one that is, you will allowed out to play after all this is over and we can get back to having some fun around here again.
I had composed a post in reply to the barely coherent axiom which I chose not to, in a vain hope that it would all go away. I may have to reconside.
Oh and Woomera?
I think he has made it clear that there are many due to the workload here and to provide some balance, no other reason, hardly a valid comparison.
To learn the answer to that question you will have to get the following out of the Video store.
House of Cards
To Play the King and
The Final Cut. a delicious ending.
I promise you will enjoy them and be riveted from beginning to end. The usual BBC best, they make these shows like no others.
Ian Richardson playing the mendacious, malevolent and extremely cunning Francis Urquhart on his Machiavellian rise to Prime Minister and ultimately becoming the inevitable victim of his overweaning ambition.
A fascinating study of Westminster parliamentary democracy on which our own Government is based and a lesson to those who would play in this manner.
The author based his story on Shakespeares' Richard III, prescient chappie was Bill.
I hasten to add that I do not model myself on Urquhart at all, the experience of the series was a bit like the old "goodies and baddies" westerns we used to attend on the Saturday arvo Matinees, with the booing and the final cheering when the white hats or the Seventh Cavalry arrived and won, which in this case they did.
OK axiom there's your chance to deconstruct my personality and character.
axiom
Axiom has served his purpose and your replies will fall on deaf ears.
Just for the information of those who thought they had axiom's identity tagged, like woomera he is a multi headed identity.
Just for the information of those who thought they had axiom's identity tagged, like woomera he is a multi headed identity.
Firstly that has been soooo obvious of late to any with half a brain here.
Perhaps the real axiom made a bit of a dill of himself a few posts ago and quite obviously had to be reined in by the other axioms who are controlling the real one, lest they also be found wanting.
Geez Machiavello where are you.
One would have to ask what the agenda is if the other axia or is it axii ? must resort to using the real axiom to attempt to derail this thread.
I see the clumsy hand of one from the West who has been twice banned from this Forum and another who has at least two well known PPRuNe persona that he is quite capable of using.
So it is difficult to take seriously, anything that comes out of there except the real Murphies, Motion.
Haven't seen Murphie, rise to the challenge of stating his idea other than the "State" thing as being the answer to EVERYTHING and that everybody else is ganging up on him unless they agree.
C'mon axiom if Murphies told you, why not tell us.
Better, get him on here and talk to us then.
Hamilton had been conspicuous by his personal absence form here, although I have no doubt he has posted in here in his PPRuNe mode.
So when axiom speaks just who is he, what does he stand for and for which one are you voting.???
You have a choice of three.
axiom Ver1.0
axiom Ver2.0
axiom Ver3.0
Never mind axiom, the real one that is, you will allowed out to play after all this is over and we can get back to having some fun around here again.
I had composed a post in reply to the barely coherent axiom which I chose not to, in a vain hope that it would all go away. I may have to reconside.
Oh and Woomera?
I think he has made it clear that there are many due to the workload here and to provide some balance, no other reason, hardly a valid comparison.
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All axioms live East of Ayres Rock and they may be as offended as I that you would imagine we are being manipulated.
When we see people such as snarek with his multi persona bring forth the idea that all will be cured by deposing Hamilton and giving nothing in return but a vague and nebuluous promise of a new and invigorated AOPA, it is time to use some reverse psychology and pool some resources.
Unlike Hydra, the woomera we learnt to know and love, and snarek the schitzophrenic, axiom is multi faceted, and not multi personality, nor anyones puppet, or lackey, or stooge or crony.
Hope this clears things up for the foggy headed.
When we see people such as snarek with his multi persona bring forth the idea that all will be cured by deposing Hamilton and giving nothing in return but a vague and nebuluous promise of a new and invigorated AOPA, it is time to use some reverse psychology and pool some resources.
Unlike Hydra, the woomera we learnt to know and love, and snarek the schitzophrenic, axiom is multi faceted, and not multi personality, nor anyones puppet, or lackey, or stooge or crony.
Hope this clears things up for the foggy headed.
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Outback Pilot.
I totaly agree with you about Bill Hamilton. He deserves better than the crap dished out by former directors who resigned because they couldn't get their own way.
As for the candidates that have not posted here I say good on them. Why should they post here, just to please a small but vocal minority?
Bart
I totaly agree with you about Bill Hamilton. He deserves better than the crap dished out by former directors who resigned because they couldn't get their own way.
As for the candidates that have not posted here I say good on them. Why should they post here, just to please a small but vocal minority?
Bart
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I note Ms Pagani has been very quiet about the Kelly institutated Gregg Lucas affair and the subsequent loss of a valuable members advocate and a good bloke.
PLUS the loss of some many thousands of AOPA dollars in an Industrial court settlement.
Does this have anything to do with the constant diatribe dished up about which column to put membership dues?
How the bloody hell does this have anything to do with Bill Hamilton?
I thought Pike and Pagani and Kelly were running the show?
I heard also, Bill Hamilton got a 300 plus, standing ovation at Narromine last weekend.
Someone from the Ministry of misinformation will tell me it was only 3 lost boy scouts and their mother's.
Perhaps we are being misled by some who would ignore the obvious AUF success and some miserable attempts to give AOPA to CASA on a plate.
Where's that miserable little EMU AR$E ?
PLUS the loss of some many thousands of AOPA dollars in an Industrial court settlement.
Does this have anything to do with the constant diatribe dished up about which column to put membership dues?
How the bloody hell does this have anything to do with Bill Hamilton?
I thought Pike and Pagani and Kelly were running the show?
I heard also, Bill Hamilton got a 300 plus, standing ovation at Narromine last weekend.
Someone from the Ministry of misinformation will tell me it was only 3 lost boy scouts and their mother's.
Perhaps we are being misled by some who would ignore the obvious AUF success and some miserable attempts to give AOPA to CASA on a plate.
Where's that miserable little EMU AR$E ?
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axiom
I have absolutely no doubt that Hamilton recieved a well deserved standing ovation.
But lets get something straight here, once and for all.
Nobody here and certainly for my part, has ever doubted his abilities, motivation, application, enthusiasm, encyclopaedic knowledge and huge contact base.
But it is clearly NOT working with those with whom he and we must work, Government and Regulator and even Smith and Munro.
"Fight", "enemy", "political action" and public name calling are not in our lexicon in the sense that they have been used in the past. The result is plain for all to see.
It is to his great credit that he offering himself for reelection when not being required to do so as are the others.
Keep repeatng to youself the maxim that "insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting to get different results."
I quote here a post of mine from the
"I'm missing something here, who actually runs CASA, Toller or Smith??"
thread in Reporting Points in which I offered an apology to Smith, but go and have a look anyway.
In reply to tsnake
"Agreed.
quote: tsnake
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps if Australia had a credible, accessible body that represented all pilots in an impartial and reasoned way people like Mr Bickies would be put in their place.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what a number of us are trying to do with the resurrection of AOPA, see the D & G thread.
Vote Marjories team.
quote:tsnake
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will acknowledge that we keep Mr Bickies profile up because he's always prepared to say something printable
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cant argue with that, and I have been impressed with his silence to date on the NAS process.
He also gets the important bits on the agenda, perhaps in a way that no one else can, but I wonder whether he tends to drown others out and the media are just a little lazy in providing the "balance" or "endorsement" if indeed it is needed on some subjects.
AOPA hasn't (been) operating all that well in that area, but there is some hope on the horizon.
It would be a HUGE step forward if we could get Smith and Munro working with AOPAs as real partners, we will in all certainty, not agree on everything, but rational debate never hurt any issue and the public out there can then see real policy deliberation in action.
There is a mystery to me, as to why Munro found it necesary to start his own organisation and I look forward to having a chat with him about it one day. Maybe at the AGM.
A strong, respected and reinvigorated AOPA, will go a long way to taking forward and supporting everyones interests.
It has been suggested that the "Team" who are running for AOPA are signalling the end of "effective political action" by their desire to "negotiate" rather than "fight" with Government and Regulator and therefore represent no further barrier to CASA action.
Totally disingenuous and nothing could be further from the truth.
I believe that if you have to "fight" a political action against anyone, then it is probably a "rear guard" one because you haven't been doing the "negotiating" job properly, rationally or effectively.
It doesn't mean that you can't be "tough" and that doesn't mean grandstanding, shouting, table thumping, lecturing or hectoring either.
I hold to the belief that;
The exercise of power is properly done, by as little of its use as is possible.
It's high time we got back to that mode and off the front page."
So let's just get this in perspective shall we, the members will work it out, one way or the other.
You should read Paul Sheehans "Amongst the Barbarians" to get a bead on just how clever the voters really are, when it comes to elections.
You ignore them at your peril.
I have absolutely no doubt that Hamilton recieved a well deserved standing ovation.
But lets get something straight here, once and for all.
Nobody here and certainly for my part, has ever doubted his abilities, motivation, application, enthusiasm, encyclopaedic knowledge and huge contact base.
But it is clearly NOT working with those with whom he and we must work, Government and Regulator and even Smith and Munro.
"Fight", "enemy", "political action" and public name calling are not in our lexicon in the sense that they have been used in the past. The result is plain for all to see.
It is to his great credit that he offering himself for reelection when not being required to do so as are the others.
Keep repeatng to youself the maxim that "insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting to get different results."
I quote here a post of mine from the
"I'm missing something here, who actually runs CASA, Toller or Smith??"
thread in Reporting Points in which I offered an apology to Smith, but go and have a look anyway.
In reply to tsnake
"Agreed.
quote: tsnake
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps if Australia had a credible, accessible body that represented all pilots in an impartial and reasoned way people like Mr Bickies would be put in their place.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what a number of us are trying to do with the resurrection of AOPA, see the D & G thread.
Vote Marjories team.
quote:tsnake
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will acknowledge that we keep Mr Bickies profile up because he's always prepared to say something printable
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cant argue with that, and I have been impressed with his silence to date on the NAS process.
He also gets the important bits on the agenda, perhaps in a way that no one else can, but I wonder whether he tends to drown others out and the media are just a little lazy in providing the "balance" or "endorsement" if indeed it is needed on some subjects.
AOPA hasn't (been) operating all that well in that area, but there is some hope on the horizon.
It would be a HUGE step forward if we could get Smith and Munro working with AOPAs as real partners, we will in all certainty, not agree on everything, but rational debate never hurt any issue and the public out there can then see real policy deliberation in action.
There is a mystery to me, as to why Munro found it necesary to start his own organisation and I look forward to having a chat with him about it one day. Maybe at the AGM.
A strong, respected and reinvigorated AOPA, will go a long way to taking forward and supporting everyones interests.
It has been suggested that the "Team" who are running for AOPA are signalling the end of "effective political action" by their desire to "negotiate" rather than "fight" with Government and Regulator and therefore represent no further barrier to CASA action.
Totally disingenuous and nothing could be further from the truth.
I believe that if you have to "fight" a political action against anyone, then it is probably a "rear guard" one because you haven't been doing the "negotiating" job properly, rationally or effectively.
It doesn't mean that you can't be "tough" and that doesn't mean grandstanding, shouting, table thumping, lecturing or hectoring either.
I hold to the belief that;
The exercise of power is properly done, by as little of its use as is possible.
It's high time we got back to that mode and off the front page."
So let's just get this in perspective shall we, the members will work it out, one way or the other.
You should read Paul Sheehans "Amongst the Barbarians" to get a bead on just how clever the voters really are, when it comes to elections.
You ignore them at your peril.
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DON'T KNOCK THE OTHER FORUM
Monkey
Thanks for your kind comments, I have been also proud of your efforts to get the debate on track. Keep it up.
Coggie and Maxi
I'm the first to admit that the alternative Forum does not have much yet. And yes, it is because we have been focusing on the election issues on this Forum. However, you need to keep in mind that it is an "apolitical" Forum for which we threw in some $ to provide an alternative to the much loved AOPA Forum after it was turned off.
There are two things in its favour.
First, it doesn't have all this crap on it.
Second, it is there to debate the multitude of AOPA issues that were on the AOPA Forum and are now in limbo until after the election. It dovetails nicely with PP and I admire Woomera's earlier positive comments about it and also the other Andrews efforts in getting it up and running.
All
In regard to the comments re Bill H, I am Irish/German and will run a mile to get into a fight where warranted. My dealings with Bill have always been great; he actually talked me out of resigning some years ago; and I have seen him in action talking to groups absolutely positively and pro-actively. I have not found reason to run and fight him.
A knife can be used to kill someone or cut up dinner. It boils down to the intent and ability of its user. I want an AOPA Board that can resolve their personal differences and get on with realities, using the Board members to cut up dinner not each other. All the crap about hand picked groups necessary to collaborate ignores the big reality that the AOPA Board won't get to pick the Minister, the CASA negotiators, etc so if they cannot unite internally what hope of dealing externally.
And, I said this yonks ago, even ignoring the AUF we remain divided between AOPA and ASA. I have yet to see a thought on "reconciliation" with Boyd and Jim, or sectioning the work between the two organisations. I guess they wouldn't be rushing to join this quagmire as evinced by the general content of this Forum. Divided we fall.
Twas glorious Sunday over Westernport with no wind, bumps, etc. A rare great flying day, and the election completely out of mind.
Cheers
Thanks for your kind comments, I have been also proud of your efforts to get the debate on track. Keep it up.
Coggie and Maxi
I'm the first to admit that the alternative Forum does not have much yet. And yes, it is because we have been focusing on the election issues on this Forum. However, you need to keep in mind that it is an "apolitical" Forum for which we threw in some $ to provide an alternative to the much loved AOPA Forum after it was turned off.
There are two things in its favour.
First, it doesn't have all this crap on it.
Second, it is there to debate the multitude of AOPA issues that were on the AOPA Forum and are now in limbo until after the election. It dovetails nicely with PP and I admire Woomera's earlier positive comments about it and also the other Andrews efforts in getting it up and running.
All
In regard to the comments re Bill H, I am Irish/German and will run a mile to get into a fight where warranted. My dealings with Bill have always been great; he actually talked me out of resigning some years ago; and I have seen him in action talking to groups absolutely positively and pro-actively. I have not found reason to run and fight him.
A knife can be used to kill someone or cut up dinner. It boils down to the intent and ability of its user. I want an AOPA Board that can resolve their personal differences and get on with realities, using the Board members to cut up dinner not each other. All the crap about hand picked groups necessary to collaborate ignores the big reality that the AOPA Board won't get to pick the Minister, the CASA negotiators, etc so if they cannot unite internally what hope of dealing externally.
And, I said this yonks ago, even ignoring the AUF we remain divided between AOPA and ASA. I have yet to see a thought on "reconciliation" with Boyd and Jim, or sectioning the work between the two organisations. I guess they wouldn't be rushing to join this quagmire as evinced by the general content of this Forum. Divided we fall.
Twas glorious Sunday over Westernport with no wind, bumps, etc. A rare great flying day, and the election completely out of mind.
Cheers
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Bill Pike should hang his head in shame over the Greg Lucas affair. Greg is a good bloke and was an assett to AOPA, he deserved better.
With that in mind, who, of the candidates, has any people management skills? Certainly the existing board has none.
Bart.
With that in mind, who, of the candidates, has any people management skills? Certainly the existing board has none.
Bart.
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PEOPLE SKILLS / GREGG
Bart
Much as I may personally disagree with Bill P's style and aspects of his attitude, I don't think we should crucify him on the Gregg issue. There were others involved, and the Board in toto must wear the decision.
As far as people skills, they must be there somewhere. Just a matter of moving egos and agendas aside to find them. One of the laziest, most difficult staff members I ever had turned out to be a champion water skier outside work - just had to find the motivation for him to move work to the same place in his priorities.
All
I should also have mentioned in my earlier posting re the alternative Forum that the Board rarely diverted from matters of State to participate in the AOPA Forum, and could be quite condescending in comments re it and its participants - Bill P possibly being the last to leave important issues to communicate with members on it. Therefore, having the new Forum "free standing" is probably a fair recognition of this.
PS If anyone in this glorious Vic is flying near my home base YTDN on a weekend, take care - the Commando Skydivers are moving there from Pakenham, starting last Sunday. A parachutist using ones aircraft as a set of brakes is rarely advantageous to either party.
Cheers
Much as I may personally disagree with Bill P's style and aspects of his attitude, I don't think we should crucify him on the Gregg issue. There were others involved, and the Board in toto must wear the decision.
As far as people skills, they must be there somewhere. Just a matter of moving egos and agendas aside to find them. One of the laziest, most difficult staff members I ever had turned out to be a champion water skier outside work - just had to find the motivation for him to move work to the same place in his priorities.
All
I should also have mentioned in my earlier posting re the alternative Forum that the Board rarely diverted from matters of State to participate in the AOPA Forum, and could be quite condescending in comments re it and its participants - Bill P possibly being the last to leave important issues to communicate with members on it. Therefore, having the new Forum "free standing" is probably a fair recognition of this.
PS If anyone in this glorious Vic is flying near my home base YTDN on a weekend, take care - the Commando Skydivers are moving there from Pakenham, starting last Sunday. A parachutist using ones aircraft as a set of brakes is rarely advantageous to either party.
Cheers
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Greg is one of the best guys you could have had on your team, not only that he had years of experience in the industry and understood people. He always spoke highly of the board members and staff. If he had been nominated for this election he may have gotten in hands down. He was a top PR man for the team.
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Gaunty;
You played on the same stage, sang the same tune and damned the same person you now give accolade's to.
The die is now cast. Will you play with whoever?
"can you take the "dick" out of my back Brutus" since such words are not in your, or your "soul mates" lexicon?
Can you ask woomera to give me back my 7 points ?
I hope you get elected with Hamilton and be forced to work with a "team" you don't agree with. Will you?
Perhaps we should have an EGM if we don't like the outcome?
Will we still have an EGM if your crew win ? or are you contemplating a change of direction?
Why don't people answer questions on this forum/
1) Code of conduct.
2) Threaten to issue cheap Writs.
3) Gregg Lucas.
4) Lack of electoral platforms.
5) Abuse of whoever puts up a counter opinion to the new REICH.
6) The bastardry and evil associated with the dare to get Murphie to post and subsequent ridicule.
7) The wonderment of why no other nominees wants to post.
8) The disinformation of the paid up membership debacle and pathetic attempt to disguise the thousands of dollars lost in employee court settlements by every one in charge excepting Bill Hamilton.
9) The spiteful and most horrible accusations of Bill hamilton that went without even a threat of a Writ.
10) The most incredible idea that being nice to CASA would bring about a change in their attitude to general aviation when they couldn't even get Murphie on side when he wished to stay in the middle, so subsequently damned him and his ideas.
Like I said, the die is cast and I see no further merit in continuing discussion with the already committed.
If you have not voted, you can always re-evaluate your priotities.
If you have, you will get the AOPA you deserve.
Either way.
You played on the same stage, sang the same tune and damned the same person you now give accolade's to.
The die is now cast. Will you play with whoever?
"can you take the "dick" out of my back Brutus" since such words are not in your, or your "soul mates" lexicon?
Can you ask woomera to give me back my 7 points ?
I hope you get elected with Hamilton and be forced to work with a "team" you don't agree with. Will you?
Perhaps we should have an EGM if we don't like the outcome?
Will we still have an EGM if your crew win ? or are you contemplating a change of direction?
Why don't people answer questions on this forum/
1) Code of conduct.
2) Threaten to issue cheap Writs.
3) Gregg Lucas.
4) Lack of electoral platforms.
5) Abuse of whoever puts up a counter opinion to the new REICH.
6) The bastardry and evil associated with the dare to get Murphie to post and subsequent ridicule.
7) The wonderment of why no other nominees wants to post.
8) The disinformation of the paid up membership debacle and pathetic attempt to disguise the thousands of dollars lost in employee court settlements by every one in charge excepting Bill Hamilton.
9) The spiteful and most horrible accusations of Bill hamilton that went without even a threat of a Writ.
10) The most incredible idea that being nice to CASA would bring about a change in their attitude to general aviation when they couldn't even get Murphie on side when he wished to stay in the middle, so subsequently damned him and his ideas.
Like I said, the die is cast and I see no further merit in continuing discussion with the already committed.
If you have not voted, you can always re-evaluate your priotities.
If you have, you will get the AOPA you deserve.
Either way.
Comedy Alright
Axiom
You are brilliant.
I only surf this forum now in anticipation of your posts.
Haven't had such a good laugh in a long time.
Bought any good planes lately....
You are brilliant.
I only surf this forum now in anticipation of your posts.
Haven't had such a good laugh in a long time.
Bought any good planes lately....
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AGREED
Bart
While I may feel that Bill P as president made a good research officer, I am mindful that he did not want a second term.
To be fair to him, I do not feel you can blame the hangman for Ronald Ryan departing. Same for Bill P and Gregg. AOPA lost a good man and a good settlement $ with Gregg. I saw him working hard at Avalon and glad I did see him before he went.
(PS I don't see eye to eye with Chris McK re censorship of the mag but also applaud the long days he spent on his feet at Avalon at the AOPA stand).
Axy
I do agree with Bart on some excellent chances for comment to your 10 points. If Bill H was another Board member, about whom I have previously "writ", we would have seen many of the constituents of the Forum, and probably this Forum itself, receiving defamation writs by the truckload by now. I applaud Bill H for his statesmanlike approach to the blots on his escutcheon.
Cheers
On a separate subject, just received the latest email from the frontline. I wonder to myself -
Has/will AOPA help support Dennis?
Am I really going to have to throw out my C172 seatbelts every 10 years no matter how few hours flown and that car owners do not have to?
I could go on but I guess what I'm thinking is where is AOPA with these issues - been a long time between AOPA emails. Are we going to strongly lobby re this seat belt crap. Of course, being for aircraft they sell at 5 times their real worth anyway.
Was AOPA consulted re the seat belt issue. As an owner I certainly was not. Gaunty, this is hardly an advert for the brave new world of collaboration with CASA. I still look upon CASA as the chook and us as the pig when we make the bacon and eggs. They are involved, we are committed!
Not happy Joyce!
While I may feel that Bill P as president made a good research officer, I am mindful that he did not want a second term.
To be fair to him, I do not feel you can blame the hangman for Ronald Ryan departing. Same for Bill P and Gregg. AOPA lost a good man and a good settlement $ with Gregg. I saw him working hard at Avalon and glad I did see him before he went.
(PS I don't see eye to eye with Chris McK re censorship of the mag but also applaud the long days he spent on his feet at Avalon at the AOPA stand).
Axy
I do agree with Bart on some excellent chances for comment to your 10 points. If Bill H was another Board member, about whom I have previously "writ", we would have seen many of the constituents of the Forum, and probably this Forum itself, receiving defamation writs by the truckload by now. I applaud Bill H for his statesmanlike approach to the blots on his escutcheon.
Cheers
On a separate subject, just received the latest email from the frontline. I wonder to myself -
Has/will AOPA help support Dennis?
Am I really going to have to throw out my C172 seatbelts every 10 years no matter how few hours flown and that car owners do not have to?
I could go on but I guess what I'm thinking is where is AOPA with these issues - been a long time between AOPA emails. Are we going to strongly lobby re this seat belt crap. Of course, being for aircraft they sell at 5 times their real worth anyway.
Was AOPA consulted re the seat belt issue. As an owner I certainly was not. Gaunty, this is hardly an advert for the brave new world of collaboration with CASA. I still look upon CASA as the chook and us as the pig when we make the bacon and eggs. They are involved, we are committed!
Not happy Joyce!
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Brian H;
Regarding the seatbelts issue, do you or anyone else know the rules and reg's regarding parachute harness. honest query and could have a bearing on the matter?
Lead Baloon;
Too broke thanks to CASA. I think Mrs axiom would go crook also.
Regarding the seatbelts issue, do you or anyone else know the rules and reg's regarding parachute harness. honest query and could have a bearing on the matter?
Lead Baloon;
Too broke thanks to CASA. I think Mrs axiom would go crook also.
Don Quixote Impersonator
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Open Letter to the AUF.
The President
Mr Eugene Reid and Board.
Australian Ultra light
Dear Sirs,
I understand that at your recent Annual Dinner you had as guests and speakers our AOPA President Mr Chris McKeown and VP Bill Hamilton.
No doubt there was a bit of electioneering by them as you would naturally expect.
You may also be aware that there is a fairly vigorous election in progress with the prospect of a completely new Board.
I am part of a "Team" being led by Marjorie Pagani, who have been assembled and nominated to take AOPA forward in a more proactive and harmonious manner than heretofore.
You should be aware that Mr McKeown and Mr Hamilton are not members of this “Team” and that we do not share ALL of their views.
As we believe that there is a strong likelihood that we will represent the majority on the Board and that we will be wishing to rapidly establish a strong relationship with your organisation we feel that it is important that you fully understand our position.
I do not know if you or your members have been following the progress of the AOPA Elections thread on the PPRuNe internet Forum and the many issues raised and debated.
PPRuNe offered the use of their Forum in the absence of availability of the AOPA Forum for the time being.
If you have the time to go through it, there is the usual to and fro, some dross but also some enlightening material
We wish to assure you that there has been much active discussion amongst us and a sincere desire amongst our “Team” to invite other organisations such as the AUF, SAA, HAA, AWPA and ASFA on board as special interest groups and natural allies. All of this representation will feed back to the board. We are committed to having the voice of the members represented on the various aviation committees and CASA bodies.
We must to respond to a letter recently published by Director Bill Hamilton. This letter goes to the heart of the differences between the direction for AOPA to which we aspire, and that of the ‘old guard’: Bill says;
“AOPA is signalling that all effective political action is at an end and “negotiating” with CASA will solve our problems, because of CASA’s newfound “respect” for AOPA proposed ‘negotiators’ (i.e. AOPA represents no further barrier to CASA action).
In this he refers to our “Team”.
There is a view amongst the general aviation fraternity that CASA has “shut its doors” to the association because of the ‘attack’ method.
We do not believe, as Bill seems to, that “negotiation” necessarily means “capitulation”.
Open dialogue, round-table discussions, and of course, heated debate from time to time, are healthy and progressive tools.
Attempting to negotiate compromises is the first step – overt political action lurks always as the back up.
We want to re-open the channels of communication.
We wish to assure you that we do not share Bill Hamilton’s view of the world.
We also wish to advise that we have already had some significant dialogue with the Regulator in relation to some fundamentally important matters that will become clear over the next few months. At their request, without we might add; “attack” or “capitulation”. No kicking down doors, just calm, reasoned dialogue.
We are also concerned that there is a post in this AOPA election debate that may have not gone unnoticed by you and contains what is represented to be a copy of an email from the current President, McKeown, expressing his “views” on “lighties and bushies” which has the potential to generate great and unnecessary mistrust between our organisations.
If you click on this URL it will take you direct to the post.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...&pagenumber=13
We do not know if Mr McKeown is aware that it has been published here, but to this date has not chosen to deny the emails content or existence, to his and the considerable detriment of AOPA.
To be certain that there is no misunderstanding in the matter; we wish to absolutely and unequivocally disassociate ourselves from Mr McKeowns’ view purported to be expressed in relation to “lighties and bushies”.
This may be a view that he personally holds, but is not the view of the “Team” or we believe the membership at large.
They are now and always will be the very backbone; strength and raison d’etre of this organisation and with the AUF represent the vast majority of aviators, in this country whose interests we both represent.
We would direct your attention to this Fridays “Australian Aviation” section, wherein we believe, that their will be some editorial comment that you might find interesting.
We have also placed an advertisement directing you to a website containing a more detailed explanation of our views and agenda.
We look forward to the results of the election and hope that we may see you at the AGM to introduce ourselves and share ideas on how we may act together to advance our mutual concerns.
Sincerely,
Gary Gaunt
Tel 08 93863514
Mob 0417 958 312
Email: [email protected]
This letter has been sent direct to Mr Reid and his Board.
Mr Eugene Reid and Board.
Australian Ultra light
Dear Sirs,
I understand that at your recent Annual Dinner you had as guests and speakers our AOPA President Mr Chris McKeown and VP Bill Hamilton.
No doubt there was a bit of electioneering by them as you would naturally expect.
You may also be aware that there is a fairly vigorous election in progress with the prospect of a completely new Board.
I am part of a "Team" being led by Marjorie Pagani, who have been assembled and nominated to take AOPA forward in a more proactive and harmonious manner than heretofore.
You should be aware that Mr McKeown and Mr Hamilton are not members of this “Team” and that we do not share ALL of their views.
As we believe that there is a strong likelihood that we will represent the majority on the Board and that we will be wishing to rapidly establish a strong relationship with your organisation we feel that it is important that you fully understand our position.
I do not know if you or your members have been following the progress of the AOPA Elections thread on the PPRuNe internet Forum and the many issues raised and debated.
PPRuNe offered the use of their Forum in the absence of availability of the AOPA Forum for the time being.
If you have the time to go through it, there is the usual to and fro, some dross but also some enlightening material
We wish to assure you that there has been much active discussion amongst us and a sincere desire amongst our “Team” to invite other organisations such as the AUF, SAA, HAA, AWPA and ASFA on board as special interest groups and natural allies. All of this representation will feed back to the board. We are committed to having the voice of the members represented on the various aviation committees and CASA bodies.
We must to respond to a letter recently published by Director Bill Hamilton. This letter goes to the heart of the differences between the direction for AOPA to which we aspire, and that of the ‘old guard’: Bill says;
“AOPA is signalling that all effective political action is at an end and “negotiating” with CASA will solve our problems, because of CASA’s newfound “respect” for AOPA proposed ‘negotiators’ (i.e. AOPA represents no further barrier to CASA action).
In this he refers to our “Team”.
There is a view amongst the general aviation fraternity that CASA has “shut its doors” to the association because of the ‘attack’ method.
We do not believe, as Bill seems to, that “negotiation” necessarily means “capitulation”.
Open dialogue, round-table discussions, and of course, heated debate from time to time, are healthy and progressive tools.
Attempting to negotiate compromises is the first step – overt political action lurks always as the back up.
We want to re-open the channels of communication.
We wish to assure you that we do not share Bill Hamilton’s view of the world.
We also wish to advise that we have already had some significant dialogue with the Regulator in relation to some fundamentally important matters that will become clear over the next few months. At their request, without we might add; “attack” or “capitulation”. No kicking down doors, just calm, reasoned dialogue.
We are also concerned that there is a post in this AOPA election debate that may have not gone unnoticed by you and contains what is represented to be a copy of an email from the current President, McKeown, expressing his “views” on “lighties and bushies” which has the potential to generate great and unnecessary mistrust between our organisations.
If you click on this URL it will take you direct to the post.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...&pagenumber=13
We do not know if Mr McKeown is aware that it has been published here, but to this date has not chosen to deny the emails content or existence, to his and the considerable detriment of AOPA.
To be certain that there is no misunderstanding in the matter; we wish to absolutely and unequivocally disassociate ourselves from Mr McKeowns’ view purported to be expressed in relation to “lighties and bushies”.
This may be a view that he personally holds, but is not the view of the “Team” or we believe the membership at large.
They are now and always will be the very backbone; strength and raison d’etre of this organisation and with the AUF represent the vast majority of aviators, in this country whose interests we both represent.
We would direct your attention to this Fridays “Australian Aviation” section, wherein we believe, that their will be some editorial comment that you might find interesting.
We have also placed an advertisement directing you to a website containing a more detailed explanation of our views and agenda.
We look forward to the results of the election and hope that we may see you at the AGM to introduce ourselves and share ideas on how we may act together to advance our mutual concerns.
Sincerely,
Gary Gaunt
Tel 08 93863514
Mob 0417 958 312
Email: [email protected]
This letter has been sent direct to Mr Reid and his Board.